President Joe Biden

[cjn]

I see cjn doesn't know when to stop being a Dem/ MSM shill.

What do they say about name calling? Believe it's the last refuge of those who cannot logically disprove an opposing point of view. Really fits the bill here.

 

[The perfect fumble]

There’s a difference between voting against your own self-interest and thinking that you’re voting in your own self-interest but aren’t because you’ve been had by a crook.

I’ve spent many words here cautioning that putting all Trump voters down to being either stupid or evil is wrong, and that both party establishments underestimated the hopelessness, desperation and anger of poor rural whites as technology, the economy and altered moral standards passed them by.

Unfortunately Trump, like any good evangelical
preacher, accurately identified them as dupes, as means to an end, and exploited that by convincing them that he alone could ease their pain and fear by making those responsible suffer (remember — HIM, not an ideology — HIM alone).

I'm not a regular contributor to this thread, but I do read it and that's why I felt compelled to post, just to break the circular argument, but all I've done is start another one and your post encapsulates it.

You rightly point out here....

"I’ve spent many words here cautioning that putting all Trump voters down to being either stupid or evil is wrong, and that both party establishments underestimated the hopelessness, desperation and anger of poor rural whites as technology, the economy and altered moral standards passed them by."

That this constituency has been poorly served by both main parties, and that is undoubtedly true, but what they've really been poorly served by is an economic system, to quote Gore Vidal....

“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt — until recently … and more willing than the Republicans to make small adjustments when the poor, the black, the anti-imperialists get out of hand. But, essentially, there is no difference between the two parties.”

Both parties are just two cheeks of the same arse, the fact that Trump has been able to carve a constituency out of this chaos by lying, cheating and playing the white man card does not, as you imply, make him an aberration, he is in many respects the logical conclusion to this double bind of corporate Democrat or corporate Republican.

That does not mean you have to opt for socialism to escape the misery of a political class in hock to the rich and powerful, but what it does mean is that options beyond global capitalism, beyond Wall Street, beyond the 1% must be entertained and brought in to mainstream political discourse. Because if you don't then the downtrodden only have the colour of their skin and their sense of cultural identity to cling to, and as we've seen crooks like Trump know how to exploit that, hence my point that Trump is a product of the system and not a one off charlatan.

The Republicans are a lost cause, but the Democrats contain the possibility of re-invention, but what do they offer? What is their answer to the monumental challenges America faces, not only from Trump, but the power of global capital, climate change, and the growing power of Russia and China?......They offer Joe Biden.

Is it any wonder, given the scale of the challenges the USA faces, that some folk, with justification, throw up their hands and shout "fuck this for a game of soldiers!"

 

[Bigga]

Sorry, I've been in my kitchen cooking and replied in a split session!

I'm not going to respond to my good, but opposable, friend SB, directly as I think our conversation is closed, but I will pick up some points.

The "snake oils man" analogy is flawed because in order for that person to succeed in the con, the audience must be looking for hope/ a cure to fix their ailments and if nothing's worked before to improve their lives, despite good intentions but the same old remedy, then promises sung by a brash colourful salesman who looks pretty successful is going make sales.

I cannot blame the people for this latest promise of 'hope'.

In fact, you see it all the time; the preacher who comes on TV and looks confident that he can cure your ills as shills lay in the audience. 'Give me your money, I will request to the Lord He sees you into the Kingdom of Heaven!' and the poor gave them their last affordable pennies.

Because they are desperate to change their miserable life condition.

These preachers would see less money if the audience had healthcare as a Human right, less money if the desperate audience had more money in their pockets.

Is it fair to call them belligerent or stupid when they have none...?

Now I don't want things to go off the cliff, but I've been seeing things get close to the tipping point for a while and maybe it needs to happen to shake up the system. I would understand if that happens, but this could have been entirely avoidable to even be here, talking about it.

Desperation leads to all sorts of promise/ con.

The States is continually touted as "the richest country on earth", but it's meant as the place where most billionaires live; a design not by accident. But that legacy, with the right policies could actually make the US that 'City on a Shining Hill' it tells itself it is.

Even the 'American Dream' phrase presents a dichotomy rather than a juxtaposition of ideology.

Anyway, I find it strange that people are concentrating on the 'fire' rather than being guilty of ignoring the spark cos you have your garden to tend to.

Yes, the fire exists and it's existed every four years and dosed for the time being and yet the same conditions are met for another fire to rage, only this time it affects your country, not your house.

Lessons are not being learned by anyone but the disenfranchised and they're willing to start holding the vote to ransom for the promise of something to be done for them.

Sometimes in the game of 'musical chairs', you have to snatch what's yours. More power to them.

And, as a last pick up, the power of wealth is underestimated by many if you think that profit is not king. #45 won't last if the rich don't make money or if working people down tools.

It doesn't matter what he does and that's the different in a capitalist State. You can hold a nation down with communism but not in any other form.

 

[super_city_si]

For those, who like me, do not completely understand the electoral college. Here’s a pretty simple to follow explanation.

 

[west didsblue]

For those, who like me, do not completely understand the electoral college. Here’s a pretty simple to follow explanation.

In summary, all the delegates from a particular state are supposed to vote the way of the popular vote in that state.

One of the Trump strategies are for his allies in positions of power in GOP states not to endorse the popular vote due to made up fraud, and for the State authorities to instruct the delegates to vote for Trump irrespective of the popular vote. About as blatant as it gets when it comes to electoral fraud. It will end up in the Supreme Court that will contain 3 Trumpets and 3 other conservatives out of 9 so anything could happen.

 

[super_city_si]

In summary, all the delegates from a particular state are supposed to vote the way of the popular vote in that state.

One of the Trump strategies are for his allies in positions of power in GOP states not to endorse the popular vote due to made up fraud, and for the State authorities to instruct the delegates to vote for Trump irrespective of the popular vote. About as blatant as it gets when it comes to electoral fraud. It will end up in the Supreme Court that will contain 3 Trumpets and 3 other conservatives out of 9 so anything could happen.

The state can’t force the electors to change their votes If they vote for the winner. They can only force them to change their vote if they vote for the loser.
so if trump loses there’s fuck all he can do as I highly doubt the democratic electors will change their vote. I think he’s just posturing to enhance voter apathy. He wants them to think ‘what’s the point?’

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

so what if some do, he's a better option than Trump right ???????

I really don’t see it as a love of Biden, even in his own thread.

What I’m seeing is the lesser of two evils. Well actually it’s more the prevention of the evil by maintaining the status quo.

I don’t know a lot about Biden per se but I don’t see him dismantling the system. That is the constitution, which by and large is founded on good intent and ensures safeguards and balance and checks in governance.

As I said, I don’t know Biden, but I don’t see his party as fascists.

The GOP as it’s referred to in here seem to be either sleep walking into fascism or are fully complicit in it.

Either way this election’s main battle seems very clear. You are either for it or against it. Fascism.

 

[GH64]

The electoral college system is pretty complex but basically there are 2 different groups that get to vote in each state depending on who wins the state - a bunch of Republicans if Trump wins or a bunch of Democrats if Biden wins - by State. But the people chosen to represent the Group can vote for who they want. So if you are a Republican who hates Trump you can vote for Biden, but they won't pick you for the electoral college unless you keep your gob shut beforehand. Or you could vote for an independent for those who remember Ross Perot.
I worked in the US for about 7 years, and only 1 American I met understood how the system worked.
So - constitutional republic not a democracy.......

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

For those, who like me, do not completely understand the electoral college. Here’s a pretty simple to follow explanation.

And that’s the simple version.
I’ll be honest. It’s totally foreign to me. It doesn’t seem like the most democratic way to elect a government or does it just elect a president?
How do local governors get elected?

 

[GH64]

Governors is easy. Just a majority in the State in the vote for the Governor.
President isn't that daft, just says big States get more votes, but it is all or nothing.
The daft one is the Senate where all States get 2,,,,,