President Joe Biden

[ChicagoBlue]

There's me thinking people become pilots because the money is good.

The crusader act was a tad desperate tbh.

I will call you captain courageous in future though, its nice to be nice:-)

I’d prefer you didn’t call me at all, but if you are going to call, I prefer Captain Fantastic!

The money is good in many places (I was a financial analyst and a pro soccer player before going to Flight School), and many, many pilots find out the money is not that good unless and until you get to the upper reaches of the industry. Few pilots get into flying for the money, and certainly not for the ability to carry a firearm!

Regardless, life is about more than just a buck!

As for the “crusader act,” I’ll assume that’s your pathetic inability to both apologize for your outrageous words at play and understand “the act” I undertook.

I lost friends at the actual hands of the 9/11 terrorists, who slit their throats where they sat…which was in the same seat I sit while at work…and then killed all the people onboard and as many as they could on the ground.

To you, that’s something you see on TV and from which you are completely disconnected. For me, it was personal, visceral, and struck at the core of my job and the lives I accept to protect.

Clearly, that’s a throw away Internet forum meme to you, but wearing a loaded firearm to work with the SOLE MOTIVE of killing anyone who threatens the aircraft comes with a level of training and responsibility you can only imagine from your keyboard.

I should have realized the drivel to follow, and stopped reading, when I saw your first words “There’s me thinking…”

My mistake.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

De nada.

Next time we disagree on a different topic and you’re calling me a dick, I may mention this post :)

It won’t matter! ;-)

Everyone I love and admire can be a dick at times. They know I can be, too! It’s part of being human.

That said, I appreciated your eloquent, thoughtfully considered post.

 

[hilts]

I’d prefer you didn’t call me at all, but if you are going to call, I prefer Captain Fantastic!

The money is good in many places (I was a financial analyst and a pro soccer player before going to Flight School), and many, many pilots find out the money is not that good unless and until you get to the upper reaches of the industry. Few pilots get into flying for the money, and certainly not for the ability to carry a firearm!

Regardless, life is about more than just a buck!

As for the “crusader act,” I’ll assume that’s your pathetic inability to both apologize for your outrageous words at play and understand “the act” I undertook.

I lost friends at the actual hands of the 9/11 terrorists, who slit their throats where they sat…which was in the same seat I sit while at work…and then killed all the people onboard and as many as they could on the ground.

To you, that’s something you see on TV and from which you are completely disconnected. For me, it was personal, visceral, and struck at the core of my job and the lives I accept to protect.

Clearly, that’s a throw away Internet forum meme to you, but wearing a loaded firearm to work with the SOLE MOTIVE of killing anyone who threatens the aircraft comes with a level of training and responsibility you can only imagine from your keyboard.

I should have realized the drivel to follow, and stopped reading, when I saw your first words “There’s me thinking…”

My mistake.

Your mistake was the tone of your posts, the content we just disagreed on.Things were settled last night so I'm not going down this route again.

Have a good un cappie.

 

[BobKowalski]

This is a terrible take and virtually excusing the lack of a contingency plan from, at least, 6 months ago when the exit date was known/ renegotiated. Were there no planes available for transport in that time to evacuate over the coming months?

"Events, decisions are interconnected, past decisions impact on current decisions"? This is horseshit and deflecting of a lack of exit strategy from the "world's mightiest army".

I didn't think you'd get taken in by this shitty 'explanation'.

Hardly. I have been critical of the operation in the Afghanistan thread. The decision to withdraw was known months in advance. Why weren't arrangements made for vulnerable staff months ago? Why wasn't the withdrawal eked out incrementally over months rather than compressed into what seemed to be days? The French started doing withdrawals back in May and were criticised for doing so on the grounds it showed a lack of faith in the Afghan Govt and military.

And that is were it went wrong. The on the ground intelligence and assessment on the viability of the Afghan Govt and military was either hopeless flawed or ignored in Washington and elsewhere. The swift collapse took people by surprise and instead of an orderly withdrawal it lead to chaos.

Biden gets criticism for the way it unfolded because he is President and he carries the can for the errors made. In any operational action this is the way it works and voters make their judgments accordingly.

But the withdrawal is the final act in a play that spans decades. Biden’s actions are in part dictated by actions of his predecessors. The blame for not putting in place a strong viable Afghan Govt and military lies with previous administrations. The blame for not realising the Afghan Govt wasn’t going to last longer than your average baseball game lies with Biden. A miscalulation they publically accept.

Afghanistan was a game of musical chairs and when the music ran out Biden was left standing. Someone, at some point, had to be left standing. Nixon sued for peace in Vietnam. Ford was left with the collapse of Saigon. So was Ford to blame for the collapse and the ‘humiliation of America’ or was it the inevitable end to a tragic farce?

A bit of context to the withdrawal, and some historical context for good measure wouldn't go amiss.

The US and allies may look to punish the new Govt. Sanctions and all that. Personally, I think that would be a mistake. The Taliban can't govern the country. They have neither the manpower or the experience, not are they popular. There is a small chance of salvaging something, even tempering the Taliban with constructive engagement, but the optics will likely dictate against it. Also, I don't think the US cares so again it will be all stick and no carrot which helps no one and certainly not the people of Afghanistan. And that will be on Biden because he now sets the agenda going forward.

 

[mancity1]

I’d prefer you didn’t call me at all, but if you are going to call, I prefer Captain Fantastic!

The money is good in many places (I was a financial analyst and a pro soccer player before going to Flight School), and many, many pilots find out the money is not that good unless and until you get to the upper reaches of the industry. Few pilots get into flying for the money, and certainly not for the ability to carry a firearm!

Regardless, life is about more than just a buck!

As for the “crusader act,” I’ll assume that’s your pathetic inability to both apologize for your outrageous words at play and understand “the act” I undertook.

I lost friends at the actual hands of the 9/11 terrorists, who slit their throats where they sat…which was in the same seat I sit while at work…and then killed all the people onboard and as many as they could on the ground.

To you, that’s something you see on TV and from which you are completely disconnected. For me, it was personal, visceral, and struck at the core of my job and the lives I accept to protect.

Clearly, that’s a throw away Internet forum meme to you, but wearing a loaded firearm to work with the SOLE MOTIVE of killing anyone who threatens the aircraft comes with a level of training and responsibility you can only imagine from your keyboard.

I should have realized the drivel to follow, and stopped reading, when I saw your first words “There’s me thinking…”

My mistake.

You are to be admired for the choices you have made and clearly speak from experiences first hand and my heart bleeds for the friends and associates lost in combat with other human beings.

In saying that a forgiving human being acknowledges the right of another to have a view or opinion even if it comes from a different platform of experience.

Captain Fantastic , leave that to Sir Elton , if your kids and your wider family circle call you their hero that is all that matters CB , hero for being a good bloke and a good citizen.

As Sir Elton also said , don't shoot the piano player and sorry is hard for some to say.

 

[mancity1]

Hardly. I have been critical of the operation in the Afghanistan thread. The decision to withdraw was known months in advance. Why weren't arrangements made for vulnerable staff months ago? Why wasn't the withdrawal eked out incrementally over months rather than compressed into what seemed to be days? The French started doing withdrawals back in May and were criticised for doing so on the grounds it showed a lack of faith in the Afghan Govt and military.

And that is were it went wrong. The on the ground intelligence and assessment on the viability of the Afghan Govt and military was either hopeless flawed or ignored in Washington and elsewhere. The swift collapse took people by surprise and instead of an orderly withdrawal it lead to chaos.

Biden gets criticism for the way it unfolded because he is President and he carries the can for the errors made. In any operational action this is the way it works and voters make their judgments accordingly.

But the withdrawal is the final act in a play that spans decades. Biden’s actions are in part dictated by actions of his predecessors. The blame for not putting in place a strong viable Afghan Govt and military lies with previous administrations. The blame for not realising the Afghan Govt wasn’t going to last longer than your average baseball game lies with Biden. A miscalulation they publically accept.

Afghanistan was a game of musical chairs and when the music ran out Biden was left standing. Someone, at some point, had to be left standing. Nixon sued for peace in Vietnam. Ford was left with the collapse of Saigon. So was Ford to blame for the collapse and the ‘humiliation of America’ or was it the inevitable end to a tragic farce?

A bit of context to the withdrawal, and some historical context for good measure wouldn't go amiss.

The US and allies may look to punish the new Govt. Sanctions and all that. Personally, I think that would be a mistake. The Taliban can't govern the country. They have neither the manpower or the experience, not are they popular. There is a small chance of salvaging something, even tempering the Taliban with constructive engagement, but the optics will likely dictate against it. Also, I don't think the US cares so again it will be all stick and no carrot which helps no one and certainly not the people of Afghanistan. And that will be on Biden because he now sets the agenda going forward.

Good post Bob , notwithstanding it is known that Biden was keen on a withdrawal when he was more lucid and influential in foreign policy than he is now when VP to Obama.

he had little influence nor did the machine behind Obama in influencing and securing a withdrawal of sorts that should have been set in motion after the demise of Osama Bin Laden.

Obama's track record on foreign policy was poor , Syria , Libya , the Taliban , Iran I could go on meanwhile dropping the ball on the bigger players namely China and Russia.

America is seen as weak now on the world stage but it can turn things around and quickly despite the fact a trail of woe is left in Afghanistan.

Trump's administration doing a deal with the Taliban despite the retribution that would follow if they breached the rules of engagement was stupid IMO and he and his advisors should be judged poorly for that.

All in all the Afghan people many of whom helped the US and its allies in the fight to democratise against terrorists who commit genocide were the pawns in a game and for that the west should be judged poorly despite successfully ensuring terrorist acts on our shores were minimised.

 

[Bigga]

Hardly. I have been critical of the operation in the Afghanistan thread. The decision to withdraw was known months in advance. Why weren't arrangements made for vulnerable staff months ago? Why wasn't the withdrawal eked out incrementally over months rather than compressed into what seemed to be days? The French started doing withdrawals back in May and were criticised for doing so on the grounds it showed a lack of faith in the Afghan Govt and military.

And that is were it went wrong. The on the ground intelligence and assessment on the viability of the Afghan Govt and military was either hopeless flawed or ignored in Washington and elsewhere. The swift collapse took people by surprise and instead of an orderly withdrawal it lead to chaos.

Biden gets criticism for the way it unfolded because he is President and he carries the can for the errors made. In any operational action this is the way it works and voters make their judgments accordingly.

But the withdrawal is the final act in a play that spans decades. Biden’s actions are in part dictated by actions of his predecessors. The blame for not putting in place a strong viable Afghan Govt and military lies with previous administrations. The blame for not realising the Afghan Govt wasn’t going to last longer than your average baseball game lies with Biden. A miscalulation they publically accept.

Afghanistan was a game of musical chairs and when the music ran out Biden was left standing. Someone, at some point, had to be left standing. Nixon sued for peace in Vietnam. Ford was left with the collapse of Saigon. So was Ford to blame for the collapse and the ‘humiliation of America’ or was it the inevitable end to a tragic farce?

A bit of context to the withdrawal, and some historical context for good measure wouldn't go amiss.

The US and allies may look to punish the new Govt. Sanctions and all that. Personally, I think that would be a mistake. The Taliban can't govern the country. They have neither the manpower or the experience, not are they popular. There is a small chance of salvaging something, even tempering the Taliban with constructive engagement, but the optics will likely dictate against it. Also, I don't think the US cares so again it will be all stick and no carrot which helps no one and certainly not the people of Afghanistan. And that will be on Biden because he now sets the agenda going forward.

Decent post that drags in other subject matter to pad it out.

You have to question why the US lingered on in a place when The Surrender Monkeys did one earlier in the year.

Again, it could have only been to someone's benefit, hm...?

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Hardly. I have been critical of the operation in the Afghanistan thread. The decision to withdraw was known months in advance. Why weren't arrangements made for vulnerable staff months ago? Why wasn't the withdrawal eked out incrementally over months rather than compressed into what seemed to be days? The French started doing withdrawals back in May and were criticised for doing so on the grounds it showed a lack of faith in the Afghan Govt and military.

And that is were it went wrong. The on the ground intelligence and assessment on the viability of the Afghan Govt and military was either hopeless flawed or ignored in Washington and elsewhere. The swift collapse took people by surprise and instead of an orderly withdrawal it lead to chaos.

Biden gets criticism for the way it unfolded because he is President and he carries the can for the errors made. In any operational action this is the way it works and voters make their judgments accordingly.

But the withdrawal is the final act in a play that spans decades. Biden’s actions are in part dictated by actions of his predecessors. The blame for not putting in place a strong viable Afghan Govt and military lies with previous administrations. The blame for not realising the Afghan Govt wasn’t going to last longer than your average baseball game lies with Biden. A miscalulation they publically accept.

Afghanistan was a game of musical chairs and when the music ran out Biden was left standing. Someone, at some point, had to be left standing. Nixon sued for peace in Vietnam. Ford was left with the collapse of Saigon. So was Ford to blame for the collapse and the ‘humiliation of America’ or was it the inevitable end to a tragic farce?

A bit of context to the withdrawal, and some historical context for good measure wouldn't go amiss.

The US and allies may look to punish the new Govt. Sanctions and all that. Personally, I think that would be a mistake. The Taliban can't govern the country. They have neither the manpower or the experience, not are they popular. There is a small chance of salvaging something, even tempering the Taliban with constructive engagement, but the optics will likely dictate against it. Also, I don't think the US cares so again it will be all stick and no carrot which helps no one and certainly not the people of Afghanistan. And that will be on Biden because he now sets the agenda going forward.

Good post.

With regard to punishing the new Taliban Government - I don't think that the US will take that stance, at least initially. In the short term, the US needs to work with the Taliban to evacuate eligible Afghanis.

Long term - ISIS is no friend at all of the Talibans. There is likely scope for cooperation between the two governments to thwart ISIS and their ilk.

But the Taliban are extremist Muslim fundamentalists - many of their beliefs and actions will clash violently with western culture - setting the stage for a fractious relationship.

 

[Bigga]

Hey Saagar, how's it looking for Biden, these days...?

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Hey Saagar, how's it looking for Biden, these days...?

Yes Bigga. Isn't the Afghan blowback on Biden's presidency just wonderful? With any luck, your favorite red-headed fascist will be our next President.