President Joe Biden

[yankblue]

I think the question is, should you have to be vaccinated. I think that everybody should, it has proved to work, but would like to understand those that think different.

My daughter is and she does it to look after the people she cares for. My youngest son did it because he thought it was right although, for maybe the wrong reasons as he wanted to protect his Nan. My other son can’t be arsed with it, no political or personal issue, just doesn’t think it involves him as he is a young lad.

What are your thoughts?

This isn't directed at you by any means - but in my opinion, the problem is the overwhelming majority of folks who think differently only do so because they've seen a Facebook meme that told them they'll be microchipped and turned into a magnet. Or they've been indoctrinated by some alt right news network, or fallen victim to a conspiracy theory cult, or they just want to see the other "side" lose. There's no logic to understand.

We've all been required to get vaccines our entire lives. Vaccines are required to attend school and other public childcare facilities. I'm all for personal freedom and the right to choose...until it impacts others. And this does, and will continue to do so until we have a high enough vaccine rate.

What worries me is that each variant has become more deadly and infectious then the rest. So is it possible in a few months we have a new variant that's vaccine resistant with a high fatality rate, even in young healthy people? I don't know but certainly seems as though we're headed that way.

 

[mancity1]

I think the question is, should you have to be vaccinated. I think that everybody should, it has proved to work, but would like to understand those that think different.

My daughter is and she does it to look after the people she cares for. My youngest son did it because he thought it was right although, for maybe the wrong reasons as he wanted to protect his Nan. My other son can’t be arsed with it, no political or personal issue, just doesn’t think it involves him as he is a young lad.

What are your thoughts?

Morally I think we have an obligation to look after one another both within your inner circle and beyond and to date these vaccines have shown to be the best defence to the spreading of the virus.

I do believe that medical reasons aside as well no one should be forced to take the vaccine but with freedom comes responsibility and if a business decides not to let a non vaccinated person into their establishment that is their choice as many already have rules ie dress code and the like to turn away customers.

Personally I have no problems being in the same room as someone who is not vaccinated it is their choice just like any other health choice they make.

We do have to be mindful of not creating a class of the unvaccinated though and given that vaccinated persons can still contract and transmit don't see a lot of sense in any establishment banning non- vaccinated from their facility.

So I would encourage anyone who can to get vaccinated but not admonish them or penalise them untoward if they did not.

if they contract the virus after being offered it that is their choice , just like smoking and taking drugs is even after receiving the advice on the harm it can do.

Like many things we don't realise some of the consequences until it affects us personally or someone we know.

Life is full of risks and we cannot live in a cave all our lives to enjoy what freedom to move and interact offers but if that is your choice as well then fine.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

FFS. The problem with the unvaccinated isn’t the spread. The problem is IF the unvaccinated get sick enough to go to hospital, they take up ICU space from those who need it, but who don’t have a virus that they could have curtailed the impact of with a safe, simple, free, widely-available vaccine. And the unvaxxed are about, what, 100x more likely to end up in hospital than the vaxxed if they contract COVID?

But oh let’s fret and worry about creating a class of the unvaccinated.

 

[roman totale]

He’s doing a great job. I’m glad he’s had enough of the idiots and calling them out.
Keep it up Joe.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

FFS. The problem with the unvaccinated isn’t the spread. The problem is IF the unvaccinated get sick enough to go to hospital, they take up ICU space from those who need it, but who don’t have a virus that they could have curtailed the impact of with a safe, simple, free, widely-available vaccine. And the unvaxxed are about, what, 100x more likely to end up in hospital than the vaxxed if they contract COVID?

But oh let’s fret and worry about creating a class of the unvaccinated.

Tbf, one of the problems with the unvaccinated, globally, is the availability of ready hosts for mutation.

Delta is just one that caught hold and was especially virulent, but there could be others. The “get vaxxed” crowd had actually shifted from “Save the NHS” to “Stop the Spread” by getting to herd immunity levels, where there are not enough people to continue the exponential spread.

Knowing that vaxxed people CAN get the virus, but it can be better controlled in most people, thus saving hospital beds and resources is, of course, an excellent outcome of being vaccinated against this novel virus. However, with literally BILLIONS of people in the world still unvaccinated, we are ALL EXPOSED TO MUTATIONS, and our vaccines may become less and less robust in dealing with the variants.

“Get vaxxed” is an excellent mantra for idiotic Americans who have easy, free access, but in most places it’s getting the vaccine itself that is proving difficult.

Without a global answer, global travel is going to continue to be difficult. With the global economy being adversely affected by that lack of movement of people, and goods and services, we are all vulnerable to far more than “just” the virus!

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Tbf, one of the problems with the unvaccinated, globally, is the availability of ready hosts for mutation.

Delta is just one that caught hold and was especially virulent, but there could be others. The “get vaxxed” crowd had actually shifted from “Save the NHS” to “Stop the Spread” by getting to herd immunity levels, where there are not enough people to continue the exponential spread.

Knowing that vaxxed people CAN get the virus, but it can be better controlled in most people, thus saving hospital beds and resources is, of course, an excellent outcome of being vaccinated against this novel virus. However, with literally BILLIONS of people in the world still unvaccinated, we are ALL EXPOSED TO MUTATIONS, and our vaccines may become less and less robust in dealing with the variants.

“Get vaxxed” is an excellent mantra for idiotic Americans who have easy, free access, but in most places it’s getting the vaccine itself that is proving difficult.

Without a global answer, global travel is going to continue to be difficult. With the global economy being adversely affected by that lack of movement of people, and goods and services, we are all vulnerable to far more than “just” the virus!

I agree with all of that — my response was a rejoinder to the “Why should I care if other people aren’t vaxxed and I am?” silliness. The primary reason from my/a personal safety perspective is ICU capacity. There are plenty of other socio-economic worries too but “we need to reach herd immunity to kill this” isn’t as motivating as “I don’t want to end up in the ICU nor do I want to not be able to use it if I or a loved one needs it.” It’s more immediate and visceral and all the data overwhelmingly supports very few vax cases in hospital. It’s a current positive rather than a future positive outcome.

 

[mancity1]

FFS. The problem with the unvaccinated isn’t the spread. The problem is IF the unvaccinated get sick enough to go to hospital, they take up ICU space from those who need it, but who don’t have a virus that they could have curtailed the impact of with a safe, simple, free, widely-available vaccine. And the unvaxxed are about, what, 100x more likely to end up in hospital than the vaxxed if they contract COVID?

But oh let’s fret and worry about creating a class of the unvaccinated.

The problem with the unvaccinated is both spread and ICU as more spread means more ICU take up required albeit many of deaths in Australia at least are occurring at home when people decide not to call for assistance ( at least 30 reported for the 170 deaths reported to date in NSW at this latest Delta outbreak for a whole range of reasons ).

In saying that many need ICU for treatment for disease like influenza each year and hospitals always have to juggle ICU each year its just that a 100 year pandemic will stretch and often overrun the capacity as it has done even in countries with good public and private hospital and health care systems, NSW and Victoria for example have surge capacity for around 5000 and 4000 ICU wards if required.

To date there have been far more in ICU in bad flu seasons like 2017 and 2012 than due to Covid but that would change obviously if there was no CT and Isolation and Quarantine programs in place.

I think the jury is out on the death rates of future strains but like most viruses that become more transmissive but less virulent with the passage of time the evidence in Australia at least is that the Delta fits this scenario.

Alpha - 30000 cases reported and 902 deaths - all unvaccinated

Delta - 40000 cases reported and 174 deaths - the vast majority unvaccinated and those vaccinated only with one dose or recent double dosed.

of course there are factors that come into play when making comparisons like better treatment , better decision making to prevent death by health care providers ( ie learning from experience ) however the relative case numbers in the unvaccinated from Delta that lead to death whether they were in ICU even amongst those at far greater risk of death with or from COVID like the massively obese , diabetics , heavy smokers etc at least in Australia is significantly less than from the first two waves of Alpha which is encouraging notwithstanding its higher rates of transmission.

 

[hilts]

I think the question is, should you have to be vaccinated. I think that everybody should, it has proved to work, but would like to understand those that think different.

My daughter is and she does it to look after the people she cares for. My youngest son did it because he thought it was right although, for maybe the wrong reasons as he wanted to protect his Nan. My other son can’t be arsed with it, no political or personal issue, just doesn’t think it involves him as he is a young lad.

What are your thoughts?

You spoilt your 3rd child too much?

:-)

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

This isn't directed at you by any means - but in my opinion, the problem is the overwhelming majority of folks who think differently only do so because they've seen a Facebook meme that told them they'll be microchipped and turned into a magnet. Or they've been indoctrinated by some alt right news network, or fallen victim to a conspiracy theory cult, or they just want to see the other "side" lose. There's no logic to understand.

We've all been required to get vaccines our entire lives. Vaccines are required to attend school and other public childcare facilities. I'm all for personal freedom and the right to choose...until it impacts others. And this does, and will continue to do so until we have a high enough vaccine rate.

What worries me is that each variant has become more deadly and infectious then the rest. So is it possible in a few months we have a new variant that's vaccine resistant with a high fatality rate, even in young healthy people? I don't know but certainly seems as though we're headed that way.

Like I said, the only one who hasn’t had the vaccine is a 24 year old, healthy person who takes all the precautions, even though not required now, wearing a mask and keeping very strict hygiene rules. Also, we think he had COVID late last year.

Now, we know that people who have been vaccinated can still get COVID and will still shed the virus to others, if allowed to. The big thing that the vaccine does is actually give you a better chance of not getting seriously ill and ending up in hospital, meaning it is personal to you. So what is the point if you believe you won’t get seriously ill?

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

You spoilt your 3rd child too much?

:-)

Little bastard!