PSG and City

[scotty123]

In France it's Azincort and that story is untrue but good try.

Sorry but it is true if you were a longbowman who could fire off more than ten accurate arrows per minute and you were not any kind of nobleman if the French spotted you and captured you execution by a sword called a MAUL was the norm.
If you was proficient with the bow and of noble birth and you was captured your two bow fingers were cut off and tied around your neck in a pig skin pouch this styed there until your ransom was paid.
Once back with the English army nobles would ride out to the french army before a battle and wave theyr hand at french nobles to show them they no longer fired the bow because if captured again with a pouch of arrows or anything to do with archery you was put to the maul immediately it was one of the rules of chivalry.
We just executed most prisoners including nobles purely for logistical reasons ie feeding them and mobility they were usually killed with a thrust thru the eye holes in the helmet with along thin knife hence the expression couldnt look me in the eyes.
iT was the English king who decided which French nobles lived or died the ordinary French soldiers were just dispatched by any means usualy just put to the sword.
How do i know this i went to Agincourt on a school field trip believe me the French still hate us for it some cafes in the region point blank refuse to serve English

Having studied the one hundred years war I can tell you that is total bollocks and urban myths that came after the time by some 4/500 years. Unless ofcourse you can find some academical evidence of this, and that doesn't include a trip to Azincort where a very bored tour guide tells uncorroborated stories. There also were no archers of noble birth.

And nobels were generally spared and ransomed.

Its not total bollocks at all i have also studied the hundred years war and agreat deal of medieval history.
It was law during this period that every person either noble baron or peasent had to practice archery at the butts three times aweek or you were punished, these were dangerous times and the English army needed thousands of longbow men no matter who you were.
Some of our best archers were nobles you dont think that they would go into battle not being trained in ALL weapons do you similar to the army today many officers are crackshots.
Chivalry only applied when it suited it was a rough tough world in the middle ages and you survived by being tough and good with all weapons.
If you would care to study Agincourt we were greatly outnumbered and the normal battle plan went out the window tha knights and nobles dismounted and sent their horses to the rear took up the bow and fired volley after volley into the massed French armoured knights this stopped them dead in the mud ,only after that did the English nobles wade in with the rest of the army and a bloody mud spattered 5 hour slog with swords and axes took place.
This totally stuned the French who couldnt believe that English nobles would fight that way after Agincourt English armies fought in that way in every battle where necessary.
If you also check on king Henry Vth his favorite weapon was the mace and the bow his personal bodyguards were all expert marksmen and the commander aWelshman called Davy Hamm was the peronal bowman trainer to the king its said he could shoot a pigeon mid flight

 

[sir baconface]

Sorry, I was out in West Didsbury with my militant Vegan friends on our bikes with daisy chains round our neck singing Matthews Southern Comfort songs. We all agreed it was a bit harsh to judge 65 million people on the military activities 70 years ago of the country they were born in. We agreed to judge people individually from now on. Crazy hippy nonsense, I know.

Very witty. But no need to strain the brain cell on my account.

Out on your bikes you say? Dont they allow high horses in West Didsbury?

What tickles me is the delicious irony of your posts. Oh yes, and your total oblivion to it. You whinge about stereotyping, then respond by flinging around your own stereotypes. A few of us josh about the heroic French war effort and that makes us racists, paid-up EDL members or ... pause for drum roll... miserable peasants from Burnley. So this is what you call "judging people individually"?

It must be a laugh a minute at Chateau Shaelumstash. (Irony).

Cheers for now.

Oh don't worry I don't have to strain the brain cell.

You think I am oblivious to the irony of me using lazy stereotypes in a debate where my point of view is that you shouldn't use lazy stereotypes? Unbelievable.

Maybe running out of steam at this point and time for us both to move on. :-)

 

[allan harper]

Right so it's longbow but no V signs, is the traditional greeting hello you cheese eating surrender monkey, I'm big on etechet and like to get things right

That's quite possibly the finest example of spelling I have ever seen.

Brilliant :-)

Wait till he comes back from France minus his two typing digits.

 

[SWP's back]

If you would care to study Agincourt we were greatly outnumbered and the normal battle plan went out the window tha knights and nobles dismounted and sent their horses to the rear took up the bow and fired volley after volley into the massed French armoured knights this stopped them dead in the mud ,only after that did the English nobles wade in with the rest of the army and a bloody mud spattered 5 hour slog with swords and axes took place.

Find me one reputable source that states that archers ever had their fingers cut off.

As for your post above, first fucking lol at the "if you would care to study Azincort", second that is plainly not true. Try reading

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-Campaign-Battle-Juliet-Barker/dp/034911918X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344590507&sr=1-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-Campa ... 507&sr=1-1</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Face-Battle-Study-Agincourt-Waterloo/dp/1844137481/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344590507&sr=1-6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Face-Battle-Stu ... 507&sr=1-6</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-1415-Michael-K-Jones/dp/1844152510/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344590507&sr=1-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-1415- ... 507&sr=1-8</a>

and my favourite:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-1415-Triumph-Against-Campaign/dp/1855321327/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344590507&sr=1-7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-1415- ... 507&sr=1-7</a>

The knights and noblemen (ie the Men at Arms) did not "dismount and take up the bow", for a start they were not armed with bows and secondly, that is the reason they had fucking archers in the first place, to take up the bow. I have not read one book from the half dozen I have read on the subject that ever suggests otherwise. Also, 90% of the men at arms weren't on horseback in the first place so would have had no horsey to get off.

Unless, again, you have a source.

(ps - If after you have read those historical dissections and studies and fancy an historical fiction book on the subject, "Azincort" by Bernard Cornwell is an ok read.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Wasn't the 'Chop off your fingers' rumour spread amonst his own men by Henry V to give them a bigger sense of importance and let them know how the opposition were seen as desperate to capture and harm any of the archers, more than anyone else?

 

[SWP's back]

Wasn't the 'Chop off your fingers' rumour spread amonst his own men by Henry V to give them a bigger sense of importance and let them know how the opposition were seen as desperate to capture and harm any of the archers, more than anyone else?

No. There are no accounts pre dating the 1980's about the "chop your fingers off".

They, being commoners, were simply executed as they held no ransome value. That was more than encouragement enough.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Wasn't the 'Chop off your fingers' rumour spread amonst his own men by Henry V to give them a bigger sense of importance and let them know how the opposition were seen as desperate to capture and harm any of the archers, more than anyone else?

No. There are no accounts pre dating the 1980's about the "chop your fingers off".

They, being commoners, were simply executed as they held no ransome value. That was more than encouragement enough.

I'm not saying it was something that actually happened. I'm saying wasn't it something Henry V made up and spread amongst his archers to ensure they knew they knew the French wanted them, more than anyone else?

 

[SWP's back]

Wasn't the 'Chop off your fingers' rumour spread amonst his own men by Henry V to give them a bigger sense of importance and let them know how the opposition were seen as desperate to capture and harm any of the archers, more than anyone else?

No. There are no accounts pre dating the 1980's about the "chop your fingers off".

They, being commoners, were simply executed as they held no ransome value. That was more than encouragement enough.

I'm not saying it was something that actually happened. I'm saying wasn't it something Henry V made up and spread amongst his archers to ensure they knew they knew the French wanted them, more than anyone else?

No, there are no accounts of Henry V saying anything along those lines.

Sorry. It's a nice story but they knew they were dead if captured which served as enough encouragement.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

So do I take the bloody long bow or not

Too fucking right, don't forget your quiver of 'Clothyard Shafts' suitably fletched with goose feathers, to immediately skewer any bolshy mayor of some gallic shithole who denies access to one of god's chosen, (see previous reports of how our Polish warriors dealt with this scenario).
You never know, there is probably some existing English law encouraging it, a bit like being able to spit a passing Welshman from the battlements of Hereford castle.

 

[scotty123]

If you would care to study Agincourt we were greatly outnumbered and the normal battle plan went out the window tha knights and nobles dismounted and sent their horses to the rear took up the bow and fired volley after volley into the massed French armoured knights this stopped them dead in the mud ,only after that did the English nobles wade in with the rest of the army and a bloody mud spattered 5 hour slog with swords and axes took place.

Find me one reputable source that states that archers ever had their fingers cut off.

As for your post above, first fucking lol at the "if you would care to study Azincort", second that is plainly not true. Try reading

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-Campaign-Battle-Juliet-Barker/dp/034911918X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344590507&sr=1-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-Campa ... 507&sr=1-1</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Face-Battle-Study-Agincourt-Waterloo/dp/1844137481/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344590507&sr=1-6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Face-Battle-Stu ... 507&sr=1-6</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-1415-Michael-K-Jones/dp/1844152510/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344590507&sr=1-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-1415- ... 507&sr=1-8</a>

and my favourite:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-1415-Triumph-Against-Campaign/dp/1855321327/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344590507&sr=1-7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agincourt-1415- ... 507&sr=1-7</a>

The knights and noblemen (ie the Men at Arms) did not "dismount and take up the bow", for a start they were not armed with bows and secondly, that is the reason they had fucking archers in the first place, to take up the bow. I have not read one book from the half dozen I have read on the subject that ever suggests otherwise. Also, 90% of the men at arms weren't on horseback in the first place so would have had no horsey to get off.

Unless, again, you have a source.

(ps - If after you have read those historical dissections and studies and fancy an historical fiction book on the subject, "Azincort" by Bernard Cornwell is an ok read.

YES i have a very reliable source Mr Foster my history teacher circa Salford grammar school year 4a 1970 yes im that old.
The guide who took us around Agincourt was not some bored frenchman but a very informed Swiss ex papal guard who was very interested in the subject he was lecturing on and let us know that the hundred years war was one of his lifetime passions.
Ihave read in numerous books all what i have been taught at school unfortunately i cannot recall the name of every book i have read but i think one was by that actor Robert hardy who if im not mistaken is an accomplished longbow man and authority on the subject.
I also recall a documentry years ago with Hardy in it all waving 2 fingers at the camera so theyv got it all wrong as well.
Dont ask me to go round looking for the names of books as i now live in Cyprus i would be lucky to find a copy of the daily mail here