Question Time

Gaudion M said:
Excellent post.

I'm not one to fall for conspiracy theories but this fake vicar debacle on Newsnight is outrageous from the BBC. It's a fox news type stunt. That and as you say the continuous approach of giving credibility to extreme views and vox pops with morons parroting misinformation and cliches. It's lost masses of credibility.
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This just popped up on YT - "Pastor" Lynn has been a nutter for some time - and the BBC booked this............?????

 
bluethrunthru said:
To be fair you can only vote for the candidates standing in your constituency so what we end up with is quite possibly the best we could get out of a whole pack of shysters and snake oil salesmen put on offer. If Westminster is full of them I dread to think of the quality of the majority that were rejected..........
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I should imagine that some of those rejected might well have made a better job than those elected. Unfortunately, we will never know!
 
Saddleworth2 said:
we always had sovereignty. The EU doesn’t. The parallels between Brexit and Trump are deep. I take it you’re a Trump supporter?
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Whooooooosh!

The parallels are NOT deep AT ALL. but, if you’re suggesting Brexit is all about race and bigotry (like Trump) then there’s nothing to say.

Receiving demands from Europe on anything other than coordinated defense and a reasonable correlation of economic goals and standards is where it all went pear shaped.

The dictatorial approach of the EU is more Trumpian than anything Britain is doing now to stand up for its sovereignty.
 
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
We must be as thick as constipated horseshit in the UK considering the shysters we end up with in Westminster!!
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This line of thought is exactly what the naysayers want.

WHO is EVER good enough?

FWIW, it’s been this way for a couple of thousand years and then some. Someone is always unhappy with their representation, because it is impossible to please everyone.

Britain is a relatively stable democracy in the 21st century. You’re streets ahead of 90+% of the world. Don’t poo poo it looking for perfection, but rather constantly advocate and vote for better...and be slightly altruistic in your search for leadership.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
This line of thought is exactly what the naysayers want.

WHO is EVER good enough?

FWIW, it’s been this way for a couple of thousand years and then some. Someone is always unhappy with their representation, because it is impossible to please everyone.

Britain is a relatively stable democracy in the 21st century. You’re streets ahead of 90+% of the world. Don’t poo poo it looking for perfection, but rather constantly advocate and vote for better...and be slightly altruistic in your search for leadership.
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I don't expect perfection but just some of those who are elected to show a glimmer of representing the people from their constituency rather than toeing a dogmatic party line. And we have a stable democracy because we no longer take to the streets with staves and axes, something upon which the assembled shysters in Westminster are eager to seize as their advantage. The point that the UK is stable has very little to do with the fact that we have 'democratic' elections. Democracy in the UK ends as soon as the votes are counted.
 
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
I don't expect perfection but just some of those who are elected to show a glimmer of representing the people from their constituency rather than toeing a dogmatic party line. And we have a stable democracy because we no longer take to the streets with staves and axes, something upon which the assembled shysters in Westminster are eager to seize as their advantage. The point that the UK is stable has very little to do with the fact that we have 'democratic' elections. Democracy in the UK ends as soon as the votes are counted.
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That all sounds very Trumpian, tbh.

The constant tearing down of institutions is something about which one has to be very careful, as it becomes a mob narrative.

However, taking to the streets, while leaving the weapons at home, is EXACTLY what a healthy democracy needs when the people don’t feel like they are being heard.

I have a friend who describes some problems as “beyond human scale,” meaning it would take a seismic shift, possibly even a painful lurch, to create the situation possible for the change needed, because individuals (and even, at times, groups) just can’t do it alone.

For me, Brexit has been one of those lurches. It has allowed a sharp reset, and I think generations to come will see it as a very good thing! It’s not a wall, and it doesn’t even REALLY need to be a barrier (but the EU want their pound of flesh to deter others!), but it does need to be a threshold. That threshold is a line over which, when one travels, there is an understanding that this is Britain, that is the EU...we determine what happens here, they determine what happens there.

Spending energy to keep one’s own country as a sovereign entity, with its own laws, traits and systems is a cornerstone of the establishment of a stand alone society, and even democracy, if they do choose. I think the EU simply overreached, tried to become what it was not intended to be, and will suffer the consequences.

Just as there was a very good reason to not join the monetary union, I think there has been enough evidence that the economic union had strayed too far from its initial goals and aspects that made it appear initially do positive.

There are literally no reasons for tariffs on goods and services UNLESS politicians create them. They do not exist in nature, they are created. The EU appears determined to create them in order to try to harm Britsins prospects of success. Why would anyone ever want to live with, or love, such a cruel mistress in the first place?
 
ChicagoBlue said:
That all sounds very Trumpian, tbh.

The constant tearing down of institutions is something about which one has to be very careful, as it becomes a mob narrative.

However, taking to the streets, while leaving the weapons at home, is EXACTLY what a healthy democracy needs when the people don’t feel like they are being heard.

I have a friend who describes some problems as “beyond human scale,” meaning it would take a seismic shift, possibly even a painful lurch, to create the situation possible for the change needed, because individuals (and even, at times, groups) just can’t do it alone.

For me, Brexit has been one of those lurches. It has allowed a sharp reset, and I think generations to come will see it as a very good thing! It’s not a wall, and it doesn’t even REALLY need to be a barrier (but the EU want their pound of flesh to deter others!), but it does need to be a threshold. That threshold is a line over which, when one travels, there is an understanding that this is Britain, that is the EU...we determine what happens here, they determine what happens there.

Spending energy to keep one’s own country as a sovereign entity, with its own laws, traits and systems is a cornerstone of the establishment of a stand alone society, and even democracy, if they do choose. I think the EU simply overreached, tried to become what it was not intended to be, and will suffer the consequences.

Just as there was a very good reason to not join the monetary union, I think there has been enough evidence that the economic union had strayed too far from its initial goals and aspects that made it appear initially do positive.

There are literally no reasons for tariffs on goods and services UNLESS politicians create them. They do not exist in nature, they are created. The EU appears determined to create them in order to try to harm Britsins prospects of success. Why would anyone ever want to live with, or love, such a cruel mistress in the first place?
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Couldn't agree more with yer last four paragraphs, CB. Spot on! But when people take to the streets it's nearly always ignored. The only instance I can recall where mass street protest changed anything was the Poll Tax crowd. Once in two genertions!
 
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
Couldn't agree more with yer last four paragraphs, CB. Spot on! But when people take to the streets it's nearly always ignored. The only instance I can recall where mass street protest changed anything was the Poll Tax crowd. Once in two genertions!
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Never give in. Never surrender. They listen...especially when you follow up your marching with standing people for the election AND VOTING FOR THEM!!

Look at the recent Mid Terms in the US! More women, much younger politicians, entrenched incumbents thrown out, first openly gay governor ever, first openly bisexual candidate ever...and it may actually have put her over the top in a very red state!!

We must never allow desperation and exasperation take away our power, even when the entrenched interests aligned against us seem insurmountable. They serve at OUR PLEASURE, and we must use OUR POWER to teach them lessons they have either forgotten or choose to learn the hard way.

Peace.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Whooooooosh!

The parallels are NOT deep AT ALL. but, if you’re suggesting Brexit is all about race and bigotry (like Trump) then there’s nothing to say.

Receiving demands from Europe on anything other than coordinated defense and a reasonable correlation of economic goals and standards is where it all went pear shaped.

The dictatorial approach of the EU is more Trumpian than anything Britain is doing now to stand up for its sovereignty.
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We will have to agree to differ then. I suppose not being in the middle of it might provide you with a different lense to see things through. In terms of parallels, both campaigns helped by protest votes against status quo, both campaigns littered with False news and lies, both campaigns connected through certain individuals with connections and funding that leads back to Putin (allegedly).
 
Saddleworth2 said:
We will have to agree to differ then. I suppose not being in the middle of it might provide you with a different lense to see things through. In terms of parallels, both campaigns helped by protest votes against status quo, both campaigns littered with False news and lies, both campaigns connected through certain individuals with connections and funding that leads back to Putin (allegedly).
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With the exception of Putin, I’m not sure I’ve lived through an election that wasn’t all of those things...and I’m in my 50s!!

Be well.
 
Terible pannel and usual plants in the audience .

This programe has gone down hill so much.


Nicky morgan is a clueless ....
 
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Every **** on here tonight is getting on my tits.

In denial at the shitshow it is davis
Mad eyes nicky morgan not having a clue
Rayner keeping to party lines
Caroline lucas like a broken record
The audience.

Jo Brand been alright, but that's because she isn't pushing a party line.


Citizens jury.. Fuck off
 
urban genie said:
Every **** on here tonight is getting on my tits.

In denial at the shitshow it is davis
Mad eyes nicky morgan not having a clue
Rayner keeping to party lines
Caroline lucas like a broken record
The audience.

Jo Brand been alright, but that's because she isn't pushing a party line.


Citizens jury.. Fuck off
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Jo Brand ? she's had fu*k all to say about anything
 
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