Racism in Football

[mexico1970]

Colonialism or slavery? Racism? Certainly none of those things started in America if we are being honest.

I meant the moaning about it mate :)

 

[better dead than red]

I meant the moaning about it mate :)

Lol!! Sorry. I completely misunderstood, as you can see. :)

In that case, I do understand and agree with you.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Colonialism or slavery? Racism? Certainly none of those things started in America if we are being honest.

America's slave system was by any measure an awful thing. It was awful when it started when the colonies were part of Great Britain and was still awful after American independence. There were certainly many European nations willing to supply the American slave holders with new bodies.

One thing the American government got right was when they decided to end slavery they didn't pay wealthy individuals for the loss of their "property" like the British government did. It was more like, "tough shit." You don't own these people anymore.

When will Britain face up to its crimes against humanity?

The long read: After the abolition of slavery, Britain paid millions in compensation – but every penny of it went to slave owners, and nothing to those they enslaved. We must stop overlooking the brutality of British history

www.theguardian.com

How Britain is facing up to its hidden slavery history

Several stories are bringing attention to the nation’s involvement in the slave trade, including recent play The Whip. Holly Williams asks why they are so important to tell now.

www.bbc.com

Fact check: United Kingdom finished paying off debts to slave-owning families in 2015

The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of slave owners for decades after the abolition of slavery in the empire.

www.usatoday.com

After the slaves were freed, America certainly had racial issues that weren't handled well at all. I'm not having a go at you by any means. I'm just uncertain what the Americans started with regards to colonialism that made Canada worse off?

I do know Benedict Arnold, before he left the Colonial Army and became a tool of and eventually an officer in the British Army wanted to invade Canada and make it part of America. I'm not certain he would have succeeded. I don't think the British Canadians were too fussed to leave their current situation. Moreover, Arnold had a tendency to overvalue himself and his abilities.

America actually paid the slavers

On April 16, 1862, President Lincoln signed the District of Columbia Compensated Emancipation Act. This law prohibited slavery in the District, forcing its 900-odd slaveholders to free their slaves, with the federal government paying owners an average of about $300 (equivalent to $9,000 in 2023) for each.

 

[better dead than red]

America actually paid the slavers

I had no idea. Must not have made the papers because the debt was settled before 2015. :)

Thank you for educating me.

 

[River Plate]

The big problem with that line of reasoning — and it's huge — is that it takes no account whatsoever of the effect on the people it's directed against. And it's deeply hurtful, in many cases. They're not to know whether you're “racist or homophobic in your core” (and incidentally I have my doubts sometimes about people's ability to be honest with themselves about that — it's like the old “I'm not racist but…” conundrum). It doesn't much matter to them what you think you are. It's just insulting and hurtful to be judged as inferior on the basis of your skin colour, or sexual orientation. Or gender.
And by the way, let me specify two things:
a) I'm no champion of wokism, which I think in certain societies is simply becoming a witch-hunt by a self-appointed vigilante group of political correctness. As a kid, I occasionally told racist or homophobic jokes, because I thought it was cool, and when I knew better, a long time ago, I stopped doing it, because I realised that, well, it wasn't cool at all.
b) I've been to Argentina several times, and it's one of my favourite countries in Latin America. BA rocks as a city, but there are lots of other lovely cities and regions. No problems whatsoever with Argentina and Argentinians.
Singing that song was wrong, and surprising, actually. Oh, and by the way, in the final of the WC, if I was rooting for anyone, it was for Argentina. Mainly because of Messi. (And I have French nationality, as well as my British nationality).

I'm 100% with you, but it is like you said: everybody has commited or said discriminatory actions/remarks at some point, everybody. And anyone saying they haven't, it's just lying to themselves. The thing is that commiting, saying these things doesn't automatically make you a racist/bigot. I've used countless of homophobic slurs during my lifetime, yet I'm 100% pro-gay rights. And as I got older, I've wisen up and started avoiding using such remarks.

On this case I'm sure Enzo and the other Argentinian player will realize their mistake and stop using that ignorant song. Enzo has already apologised publicly.

 

[River Plate]

Well if they aren't trying they're doing a fucking good job of being racist. The song wasn't aimed at you so you have absolutely no right to say that it is or isn't racist. The fact is that many of his French teammates found the song to be racist and it is absolutely their prerogative to deem it as such.

The lyrics to the song imply that because the French players are of African descent they can't be classed as French, despite being born in France and having French passports, and questions the legitimacy of their World Cup win.
If you can't see how that comes across as racist then you are part of the problem

I'm not saying it wasn't racist, I was just explaining what the intention of the song was, understanding, more than anyone here, the idiosyncrasy of Argentinian football chants. Also, being bilingual, realizing what is lost in translation and sounds worse than it actually was intended in Argentinian slang.

Trust the Argentine to be an apologist for his compatriots' wrongdoing

Spoken like a true xenophobe.

 

[River Plate]

The whole country is on a huge piss up

The irony of this guy acting self-righteous on this thread XD

 

[River Plate]

I was talking about the players that played for clubs with a strong fan base of fascist ultras.

Besides fans or not, I think the VP stance on this matter shows you all you need to know. @Crooked_rain @better dead than red and my posts pointed at Argentina having a history of racism but in all your wisdom, you brushed it aside and chalked it down as the players having a "jolly, drunk moment", you know, just "boys being boys".

And what's this history of racism Argentina has, that makes it any more special than any other history of racism in any other country?

 

[better dead than red]

Oh boy. I can't wait for this.

 

[malg]

Fucking hell. This place is like an opinion page from the Guardian.