Ref Watch

I guess I shouldn't be shocked but I still kinda am. I put most of these types of decisions down to incompetence not the "mates rates" thinking described here. I now feel suitably naive.

Anyone in authority going to do anything about this shit or nah? (I realise it's nah.)
 
Why are they so insecure?

Nobody cares if the on-field ref makes a mistake if VAR clears it up. That’s what it’s there for.

Nobody thinks any less (or shouldn’t) of referees and linesmen if they make a live-call mistake because they see things once from one angle at one speed in the heat of the moment. Sometimes they have to be trying to take in two things at once, having to flit their eyes/head from something happening twenty yards away from the other thing (especially linesmen with offsides where they need to look at the defensive line and the exact moment the ball is kicked).

It blindingly obvious pitch officials are going to make mistakes. That’s why sports created video technology and video referees.

For a video ref to correct a pitch official mistake is taking the game forward. It’s what everyone wants. The pitch officials are no better or worse at their job if they make mistakes or have VAR back them up.

They need to get real these fuckers!
I don't think it'll change until the last of the pre-VAR officials has retired.
 
Why are they so insecure?

Nobody cares if the on-field ref makes a mistake if VAR clears it up. That’s what it’s there for.

Nobody thinks any less (or shouldn’t) of referees and linesmen if they make a live-call mistake because they see things once from one angle at one speed in the heat of the moment. Sometimes they have to be trying to take in two things at once, having to flit their eyes/head from something happening twenty yards away from the other thing (especially linesmen with offsides where they need to look at the defensive line and the exact moment the ball is kicked).

It blindingly obvious pitch officials are going to make mistakes. That’s why sports created video technology and video referees.

For a video ref to correct a pitch official mistake is taking the game forward. It’s what everyone wants. The pitch officials are no better or worse at their job if they make mistakes or have VAR back them up.

They need to get real these fuckers!

I don’t think Dean is saying he didn’t want to show his mate up as having made a mistake.

He’s saying he’d had a difficult game and thought instigating a review would bring him even more hassle. Which it probably would.

It doesn’t make it ok. Far from it. And was almost certainly one of the major reasons why Webb effectively sacked him from being a VAR.

I’ve never really bought this idea that they won’t show up a mate’s mistake. Because ignoring a blatant mistake and not instigating a review is highlighting the mistake even more. It’s doing him no favours.

If the VAR had told the referee to re-consider at Old Trafford the other week for example. He would have checked the monitor, given the penalty and everyone would be saying, great, that’s exactly what VAR is for.

It’s getting a mate out of jail, not throwing him under the bus.
 
Standards of professional refs are shocking, and with the help they get we shouldn’t have these stories about them. The ref is the one person on the pitch we shouldn’t be talking about.

But they fuck it up week after week and this anger that happens from fans and managers filters down in to grass roots with coaches and parents kicking off with refs at that level thinking because that’s what happens on TV it is ok.

Last week my 15 year old son who has just started as a ref to earn a few quid had a coach storm on the pitch during an under 12s friendly because he felt my son got a marginal off side call wrong, given he doesn’t have linesmen and VAR etc.. he gives what he sees. To be fair to my son he just looked at him and said get off or I’ll report you and it hasn’t put him off carrying on as a ref. But these coaches see the behaviour of managers in the premier league when a decision is wrong and copy it, but the decisions shouldn’t be wrong given VAR and to top it off someone who was in the VAR room now says he didn’t given decisions because it would have made his mates day a bit harder.
 
Let call it what it is, match fixing. Ignore the reason why as it doesnt matter (favouring one team over another, taking bribes, or helping out a mate) he deliberately ignored an obvious foul in the area by a defender - that is match fixing. And this from one of our 'top' referees.

I believe VAR is the right thing for football, but I have no faith in most of the referees and I have no faith in their organisation.

I also dislike that the media will agree or disagree with decisions based on their own alignments, and the coverage of one mistake will be minimised or maximised based on the player and teams involved.
 
I don’t think Dean is saying he didn’t want to show his mate up as having made a mistake.

He’s saying he’d had a difficult game and thought instigating a review would bring him even more hassle. Which it probably would.

It doesn’t make it ok. Far from it. And was almost certainly one of the major reasons why Webb effectively sacked him from being a VAR.

I’ve never really bought this idea that they won’t show up a mate’s mistake. Because ignoring a blatant mistake and not instigating a review is highlighting the mistake even more. It’s doing him no favours.

If the VAR had told the referee to re-consider at Old Trafford the other week for example. He would have checked the monitor, given the penalty and everyone would be saying, great, that’s exactly what VAR is for.

It’s getting a mate out of jail, not throwing him under the bus.
Wow... I didn't think even you would try to dress up Dean's admission to be anything other than what it is: an example of corruption in officiating ("jobs for the boys" or "lads protecting their mates" is corruption, even if it is not as egregious as bribery, extortion, or illicit manipulation).

But I stand corrected, unfortunately.

And only the exceptionally naive would believe this is the only time this happened since VAR has been brought in. It's likely not even the first time Dean had done it.

To use a term from my professional background, this also an example of regulatory capture, as those ostensibly tasked with overseeing the on-field officials are those that were once on-field officials themselves, working (and it seems drinking) with those they are effectively regulating, which influences their decisions. In this case, he chose not to fairly apply the laws of the game (and VAR rules) to protect his friend, which lead to one team being unfairly disadvantaged and penalised. Given there where potential financial consequences of Dean's corrupt decision--losing 2 points could have impacted qualification for europe, which could have lead to lower direct and indirect revenue, ability to recruit and retain talent, and even previsions of playing staff contracts to be triggered--there is a very real argument that Chelsea could bring suit against Dean and PGMOL for at least gross negligence and unlawful direct harm to business.

No matter how much you or others try to downplay this admission, it is truly scandalous, and any reasonable observer would rightly question how often this occurs in matches (and why PGMOL and the PL have not taken stronger steps to prevent it). And please don't reference the fact that he was stood down and then resigned. That was likely to take the heat off the organisation and this was very likely one of many instances of him choosing to make decisions based on personal allegiances rather than fairly applying the laws of the match (over the course of a very long career).

Looking the other way until the behaviour becomes too egregious to explain away is not properly addressing the problem.

Once more, I think Dean knew exactly what he was doing by admitting it so publicly. What his aim is exactly, who knows, but it is not something you flippantly say on a podcast, especially not in the current climate. If I had to make a guess, it would be as a shot across the bow of Webb and a few other members of the PGMOL brass that may have been considering using Dean as one of the scapegoats of any more sordid information that may come out in the future. A clear "This was just a personal appetizer; I have many more morsels for the main course, so you better think long and hard before crossing me" message.
 
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Wow... I didn't think even you would try to dress up Dean's admission to be anything other than what it is: an example of corruption in officiating ("jobs for the boys" or "lads protecting their mates" is corruption, even if it is not as egregious as bribery, extortion, or illicit manipulation).

But I stand corrected, unfortunately.

And only the exceptionally naive would believe this is the only time this happened since VAR has been brought in. It's likely not even the first time Dean had done it.

To use a term from my professional background, this also an example of regulatory capture, as those ostensibly tasked with overseeing the on-field officials are those that were once on-field officials themselves, working (and it seems drinking) with those they are effectively regulating, which influences their decisions. In this case, he chose not to fairly apply the laws of the game (and VAR rules) to protect his friend, which lead to one team being unfairly disadvantaged and penalised. Given there where potential financial consequences of Dean's corrupt decision--losing 2 points could have impacted qualification for europe, which could have lead to lower direct and indirect revenue, ability to recruit and retain talent, and even previsions of playing staff contracts to be triggered--there is a very real argument that Chelsea could bring suit against Dean and PGMOL for at least gross negligence and unlawful direct harm to business.

No matter how much you or others try to downplay this admission, it is truly scandalous, and any reasonable observer would rightly question how often this occurs in matches (and why PGMOL and the PL have not taken stronger steps to prevent it). And please don't reference the fact that he was stood down and then resigned. That was likely to take the heat off the organisation and this was very likely one of many instances of him choosing to make decisions based on personal allegiances rather than fairly applying the laws of the match (over the course of a very long career).

Looking the other way until the behaviour becomes too egregious to explain away is not properly addressing the problem.

Once more, I think Dean knew exactly what he was doing by admitting it so publicly. What his aim is exactly, who knows, but it is not something you flippantly say on a podcast, especially not in the current climate. If I had to make a guess, it would be as a shot across the bow of Webb and a few other members of the PGMOL brass that may have been considering using Dean as one of the scapegoats of any more sordid information that may come out in the future. A clear "This was just a personal appetizer; I have many more morsels for the main course, so you better think long and hard before crossing me" message.

I wasn’t ‘dressing it up’ I clearly said it was wrong. I just interpreted his reason for doing it differently to the guy I was responding to.
 
Should Dean keep his new job on Sky bearing in mind that his mates are still reffing and on VAR?. Will his opinions be biased.
 

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