MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think that type of thing was removed, returning much of it to ref's judgement.
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Ref Watch
- Thread starter Chi-town blues
- Start date
Yeah, I think that type of thing was removed, returning much of it to ref's judgement.
The slaughtered lamb
Well-Known Member
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I understood from the experts on here that it’s the way the law is applied now. I don’t bother with the rules much anymore, since var was introduced they change that often. If that’s how it’s applied, I’m more annoyed with that than the ref because it’s unjust for me.Though he did pretty well, I’ll reserve judgement though until the second leg has been completed, still a bit confused about the penalty though, last I heard if it comes off your head onto your arm it’s not deemed an offence, obviously that’s changed, but when, I don’t know.
give it to gordon
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As I remember it, that wrongly awarded throw in led to their second goal. Or am a a FOC and got it wrong, again?
richardtheref
Well-Known Member
It hasn't changed. Makes you wonderYeah, I think that type of thing was removed, returning much of it to ref's judgement.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
Handball offences should be applied solely for playing the ball with your hand - a deliberate attempt to use your hand instead of body parts the LotG allow. If the ball hits your hand without you doing anything then it shouldn't be deemed handball. But how many time was Old Mother Riley and Andy d'Urso surrounded by Ragamuffins at the Swamp screaming for a pen that IFAB start including all kinds of 'handballs' that would never have been awarded under 'playing the ball with yer hand' laws. And the situation now is confusion heaped upon the mysterious. Won't be long before we have a raffle at the end of the warm up as to who concedes a pen from 'accidental' handball. Only football could come up with the shambles that has developed.I understood from the experts on here that it’s the way the law is applied now. I don’t bother with the rules much anymore, since var was introduced they change that often. If that’s how it’s applied, I’m more annoyed with that than the ref because it’s unjust for me.
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
It hasn't changed. Makes you wonder
To make sure I'm not misunderstanding, when you say "it hasn't changed", do you mean the proximity concept is still there, or isn't?
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
PiGMOL and Uefa, if they ever explain why a handball, or penalty is awarded, or not awarded, they often end up a step from a plain contradiction. One week it's a pen, the next week it isn't, one half a pen, the other half not, one team awarded a pen, another team denied. I've seen some televised comedies from the London Palladium that don't come half way to the belly laughs these arbiters come out with.To make sure I'm not misunderstanding, when you say "it hasn't changed", do you mean the proximity concept is still there, or isn't?
richardtheref
Well-Known Member
At the start of the season UEFA said that if the ball struck the hand following contact with another part of the body then hand ball should not be given. As far as i am aware this hasn't changed and therefore no penalty should have ensuedTo make sure I'm not misunderstanding, when you say "it hasn't changed", do you mean the proximity concept is still there, or isn't?
Everything about the ball coming off the head or body was removed this season.
Law 12 – Fouls and Misconduct
1. Direct free kick – Handling the ball
Old text (showing deletions in smaller type)
It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
• after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
· scores in the opponents’ goal
· creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
· the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
· the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the playerdeliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.
Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body
New text
Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.
It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
• scores in the opponents’ goal:
· directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
· immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental
Explanation
• Not every contact between the hand/arm and the ball is a handball offence.
• Referees must judge the ‘validity’ of the hand/arm’s position in relation to what the player is doing in that particular situation.
• Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences.
Law 12 – Fouls and Misconduct
1. Direct free kick – Handling the ball
Old text (showing deletions in smaller type)
It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
• after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
· scores in the opponents’ goal
· creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
· the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
· the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the playerdeliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.
Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body
New text
Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.
It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
• scores in the opponents’ goal:
· directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
· immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental
Explanation
• Not every contact between the hand/arm and the ball is a handball offence.
• Referees must judge the ‘validity’ of the hand/arm’s position in relation to what the player is doing in that particular situation.
• Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences.
When the deflection rule was introduced, didn't it say that it doesn't apply if the deflection doesn't make a difference? If that's changed then obviously the following is unimportant.At the start of the season UEFA said that if the ball struck the hand following contact with another part of the body then hand ball should not be given. As far as i am aware this hasn't changed and therefore no penalty should have ensued
Looking at the replays, it appears to me that it could well have hit Laporte's arm even without the deflection, as he was spinning round, and ended up with his arm high and pretty much in line with the trajectory of the ball.
You could argue that's tricky to be sure of, but can the VAR definitely say it wouldn't have? If the ref has given it, and that's the rule, then I can't see them saying it's clear enough to overturn.