Ref Watch

[Jesus H Gabz]

The ref obviously has seniority and the power to over-rule the linesman in any incident. But aren’t they supposed to work as a team ? To pool their resources & knowledge of a situation, what they saw, the respective rules and their opinion of the situation. The ref has a duty (if he is to consider over-ruling the flag) to consider all aspects of the decision, therefore should be asking the linesman if Rashford had touched the ball or interfered with play, anything less is a dereliction of duty, it seems he only asked if he’d touched the ball, and decided for himself that he hadn’t interfered, they where definitely getting messages in their ear from VAR/fourth official, which begs the question how can a referee linesman fourth official & VAR get something so wrong? Only answer I can come up with is corruption of some sort. We used to get told that VAR was to ensure the correct decision was made in the end & it never mattered how we got there

 

[Scottish Cityzen]

He now says it was the wrong decision and he wouldn’t have given it.

Of course, we all know whatever they are told to do via the earpiece is why they actually do!

Cheating bastards.

I’m getting angrier and angrier about this as the hours go by.

Spot on mate.

I’m hoping that the absolute injustice of this decision will be enough of a catalyst to galvanise the players and staff to adopt a “we’ll fucking show you” attitude to the cheating cunts, and go on a storming run of form.

 

[pavelsrnicek]

On this thread I was reminded about Attwell’s performance when we were away to Brighton a couple of seasons ago. At the time the match was a dead rubber for us. We scored early, Cancelo was sent off, we scored again and then conceded 3 and lost. Cancelo’s sending off was harsh but not unreasonable but almost every other decision was disgraceful. Gundogan was victim of an assault of a tackle that somehow didn’t merit a red. I remember thinking afterwards that if ever a match merited investigation into betting patterns it was that one.

Attwell was in charge that day and nothing about his performance convinced me any other than that he was either the most incompetent official in the premier league panel (almost an impressive achievement) or something far worse.

His performance in our match against Leeds was little better, consistently ignored fouls on us but pulled us up for minor stuff. Similar on Saturday with the obvious exception that he managed to come up with the worst decision I can recall in recent premier league history.

I really, really hope the club are making it clear he shouldn’t be anywhere near our matches again behind the scenes but I doubt it.

 

[Chi-town blues]

Heard on the grapevine it had something to do with gambling debts, but I don't know for sure.

It would be great if someone followed the money trial and find out how he supported his gambling habit .

 

[SebastianBlue]

Posted this analysis in the VAR thread as a response to another comment and thought it was worth posting in here, as it is more applicable to the ongoing topic of the thread.

It has to be an immediate goal scoring opportunity i.e. Kev plays a ball through the middle for Erl to run on to on the edge of the box with no defender in sight. If the liner thinks it is a tight call then the flag should stay down. In Foden's case I think both balls (I may be wrong) were sent out wide, some distance from the goal and therefore there wasn't an immediate goal scoring opportunity.

Both of them would have had Foden in behind the United defender in the box and who is to say a chance couldn’t have come from either (though, one was obviously offside, but we know that doesn’t really matter now)? One was very tight, so why did the flag immediately go up?

As far as goal scoring opportunity playing a part, are linesman now doing xG calculations before deciding whether to raise their flag for offside? What is the xG threshold for immediate flag raise versus delayed flag raise? Who set the the threshold? Are they doing it in their heads or is someone confirming it in their ear the moment the potential offside is identified?

And, in the case of the United equaliser, it wasn’t tight, nor was it an immediate goal scoring opportunity (xG from his position when the ball was played forward is slightly higher than 0.00). Rashford was well off from the moment the pass was played, not even in our final third when he was offside, so why was the flag delayed until after Rashford had run 20 yards over the ball and Fernandes swept in to put it in the back of the net?

In fact, at no point was it a particularly great goal scoring opportunity, except that all three of our players were defending a ghost offside player who had possession of the ball. Really, there is no goal scoring opportunity if Rashford is not allowed to run over the ball, as either Akanji or Eddie easily clear it before Fernandes arrives.

Fernandes even shoots from outside and almost dead centre of the box which is a relatively low xG position.

Foden’s position for both of his immediate offside calls would have much higher xG.

Nothing about the officiating during the match makes much sense outside of specific potential frameworks of utter incompetence or outright manipulation.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Posted this analysis in the VAR thread as a response to another comment and thought it was worth posting in here, as it is more applicable to the ongoing topic of the thread.


Both of them would have had Foden in behind the United defender in the box and who is to say a chance couldn’t have come from either (though, one was obviously offside, but we know that doesn’t really matter now)? One was very tight, so why did the flag immediately go up?

As far as goal scoring opportunity playing a part, are linesman now doing xG calculations before deciding whether to raise their flag for offside? What is the xG threshold for immediate flag raise versus delayed flag raise? Who set the the threshold? Are they doing it in their heads or is someone confirming it in their ear the moment the potential offside is identified?

And, in the case of the United equaliser, it wasn’t tight, nor was it an immediate goal scoring opportunity (xG from his position when the ball was played forward is slightly higher than 0.00). Rashford was well off from the moment the pass was played, not even in our final third when he was offside, so why was the flag delayed until after Rashford had run 20 yards over the ball and Fernandes swept in to put it in the back of the net?

In fact, at no point was it a particularly great goal scoring opportunity, except that all three of our players were defending a ghost offside player who had possession of the ball. Really, there is no goal scoring opportunity if Rashford is not allowed to run over the ball, as either Akanji or Eddie easily clear it before Fernandes arrives.

Fernandes even shoots from outside and almost dead centre of the box which is a relatively low xG position.

Foden’s position for both of his immediate offside calls would have much higher xG.

Nothing about the officiating during the match makes much sense outside of specific potential frameworks of utter incompetence or outright manipulation.

This immediate goal scoring opportunity thing is hilarious. There is no goal scoring opportunity because he is a mile offside. Or put it another way, there is only an immediate goal scoring opportunity because he is a mile offside. It's rewarding an attacker for being a mile offside, which I would think is the opposite of the intention of offside in the first place.

The way offside is refereed is a complete farce at the moment.

Oh, and handball.

 

[blue is best]

He is the worst referee EVER!

Remember this.



Also this

Well they definitely scrutinise all our goals with a fine tooth comb. No way it would have been allowed had we scored it. No bias though. Perhaps football is bent after all.

Far too much money in the game for it not to be bent imo.

 

[Stephen230]

It actually is.

Watch the whole incident back: He's an EXPERIENCED official. He put his flag up. After Atwell allowed the play to develop and the ball ended up in the net, Cann was confronted by Fernandes, they had a brief conversation before Fernandes walked away smiling. This was BEFORE Cann seemingly spoke to Atwell. Had Cann had the courage of his convictions he would have told Fernades for f*ck off and wait for the referee's decision. That is EXACTLY what didn't happen.

Maybe the referee had already communicated with him that he was giving a goal before Fernandez confronted him? I haven’t studied it to see the exact moment he lowers his flag. But it wouldn’t take a long conversation for the referee to ask him if he’s got his flag up because Rashford has touched the ball? And when he says no, the referee to then tell him he’s giving the goal then. It would then be absolutely the wrong thing for a linesman to do to start arguing with his referee that he thinks he’s wrong.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Maybe the referee had already communicated with him that he was giving a goal before Fernandez confronted him? I haven’t studied it to see the exact moment he lowers his flag. But it wouldn’t take a long conversation for the referee to ask him if he’s got his flag up because Rashford has touched the ball? And when he says no, the referee to then tell him he’s giving the goal then. It would then be absolutely the wrong thing for a linesman to do to start arguing with his referee that he thinks he’s wrong.

It's still not up to the lino to tell the players the REFEREE'S decision, if indeed that is what happened.

I'm very doubtful.

 

[Stephen230]

It's still not up to the lino to tell the players the REFEREE'S decision, if indeed that is what happened.

I'm very doubtful.

Of course it is. Once the referee has made the decision and the lineman is aware that the goal is going to stand, what on earth would be the point of him pretending he doesn’t know?