Ref Watch

Colin Bells Boots said:
I can only assume that decent journalists ( Martin Samuels for instance ) are concerned about the influence which could be brought to bear and thus severely influence their income etc.

When the ref ( sorry my memory for names is shit ) told the media that he had been told to change his report by PGMOL , he was dismissed as crank or liar iirc.

I believe he also lost his pension award .

That I presume is the kind of influence which means that the shit show is allowed to continue.
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I think the referee was Mark Halsey or something like that. When I say Media, I probably mean Sky/BT who are directly involved through TV rights and the online red tops who exist for clicks. Business is best with a thriving Dippers/United/Arsenal competing for the top honours. in the last decade, and certainly since Pep came it increasingly looks like we may dominate. The bias we see is the way to keep those teams competitive and relevant. Bloody hell it’s so obvious that both Liverpool this season and United last have been given significant help to reach the CL places by game manipulation.
 
I was moaning on the phone at half-time to my 85 year old dad. City were winning at the time, and went further ahead just after half-time. Pigmol, Sky, BT and the fucking BBC can dress it up all they like. Something wasn't right about Tuesday night, I know fuck all about cooking, but can tell when the chicken tastes right.
 
spiny said:
If I understand correctly, PGMOL comes under the auspices of the Premier League whilst previously all referees and officials were appointed and allocated by the FA.

This beggers the rhetorical question of "Why the change?"
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You are correct. The PL funds PGMOL. I have always wondered why a club like ours which is a member of the PL governance structure does not raise the question of refereeing standards. I would imagine it would get some support from the clubs that are normally on the receiving end of it.
 
spacecadet said:
I was moaning on the phone at half-time to my 85 year old dad. City were winning at the time, and went further ahead just after half-time. Pigmol, Sky, BT and the fucking BBC can dress it up all they like. Something wasn't right about Tuesday night, I know fuck all about cooking, but can tell when the chicken tastes right.
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It did have a whiff, there again i usually pick up that smell when Moss and Attwell are around.
 
Colin Bells Boots said:
I certainly wouldn't know how to go about setting up a concerted challenge to PiGMOL by supporters of all clubs in the PL who believe there is corruption being used to influence the outcomes of games for whatever reasons, but I believe that would be necessary to even stand a chance of bringing about any kind of reform.

My opinions and thoughts are too easily dismissed as being wrong , stupid and the work of a utter crank - my wife would definitely support that view .

But PiGMOL are the paid faciltators of the motives and interests of the PL.
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You raise an interesting point. The only body that purports to look after fans interests is the Football Supporters Association.

Home - Football Supporters' Association

thefsa.org.uk thefsa.org.uk
looking at the website there appears nothing particularly controversial. I may join and ask some questions. I‘m sure it’s not just us that think there s something rotten in the state of Denmark.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
You are correct. The PL funds PGMOL. I have always wondered why a club like ours which is a member of the PL governance structure does not raise the question of refereeing standards. I would imagine it would get some support from the clubs that are normally on the receiving end of it.
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The whole set-up is a disgrace and I find it inconceivable that these
" performances " from referees do not get picked up, highlighted and called out for what they are.

I have a clear bias, but I would defy a supporter with no vested interest either way to say that the game on Tuesday was refereed fairly or objectively.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
You raise an interesting point. The only body that purports to look after fans interests is the Football Supporters Association.

Home - Football Supporters' Association

thefsa.org.uk thefsa.org.uk
looking at the website there appears nothing particularly controversial. I may join and ask some questions. I‘m sure it’s not just us that think there s something rotten in the state of Denmark.
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I have just made a complaint to the FSA concerning the Atwell/ Moss performances.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
You are correct. The PL funds PGMOL. I have always wondered why a club like ours which is a member of the PL governance structure does not raise the question of refereeing standards. I would imagine it would get some support from the clubs that are normally on the receiving end of it.
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Basically we and others do not wish to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

It is a longer term objective.
 
asahartford1 said:
I think Taylor and Oliver are possibly close to the required level. Certainly the only two who would survive the cull with my guillotine.
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I believe there are questionmarks against both names regarding their integrity and impartiality.

We have suffered blatantly wrong decisions from both of them in the past and believe both would accord with " instructions " should the call come .

There are huge doubts about the integrity of all the PiGMOL crew, hierarchy and minnions alike , based upon incidents which I have witnessed. Very few deserve the benefit of the doubt, and a number of them should be facing criminal charges.
 
Chris in London said:
I’ve seen Taylor ref a Champions League match and I thought he was excellent.

Which makes me all the more suspicious when he turns in such abject performances when he gets our games.
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I think we always go OTT about Taylor because of his (alleged) allegiance,but i don't think he has ever properly lived up to that billing......he is usually far better than most.
 
spiny said:
Not showing replays on screens in the ground shows contempt for match going supporters who are less informed than anyone watching on tv.

Referees and officials cannot always see or make the correct decisions. VAR was meant to assist In critical or contentious situations or where there has been a clear mistake. In Rugby refs are miked and call out their decision and call for on screen evidence to prove or disprove it.

In football it is all smoke and mirrors. Clear and obvious errors are still made. Inconsistensies in applying the laws of the game continue. Worse is that changes to the laws and interpretations are being made on the hoof.

Liverpool and United have probably been the main beneficiaries of VAR. They are two of the richest clubs with two of the biggest capacity grounds in the Premier League. The question should be why these two football clubs are the exception by not having big screens in their grounds that can show replays when PGMOL and their referees only make token use of pitchside monitors?
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I don't disagree with what you are saying. Replays should be visible, fans in the ground should have a means to see what's going on.

But even with the two big screens in the Etihad, we the match going fans, still get to see jack in terms of decent VAR replays or explanations of what's going on. It's still 2 mins of watching the ref point to his ear then make a square with his hands, followed by 2 seconds of freeze frame.

Might as well bin VAR replays unless they are actually going to show decent replays of the action.

The only real replays you get to see are the perfectly good (read non-contentious) goals and I couldn't give a toss that those other two sets of fans don't get that second chance to watch a goal.
 
FantasyIreland said:
I think we always go OTT about Taylor because of his (alleged) allegiance,but i don't think he has ever properly lived up to that billing......he is usually far better than most.
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I think he has undoubtedly screwed us over in some very big games. The game against Chelsea where he should have sent Luis off is one example. But as I say, I have seen him referee games very well.

Just rarely ones featuring us.
 
Colin Bells Boots said:
I believe there are questionmarks against both names regarding their integrity and impartiality.

We have suffered blatantly wrong decisions from both of them in the past and believe both would accord with " instructions " should the call come .
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I reckon all of the PL officials oblige when they receive the call, it’s a prerequisite for getting to the top echelon (much like in Italy and elsewhere).

Unless there is a very well publicised, irrefutably documented, especially tawdry expose of match-manipulation and/or fixing amongst the PL referees, we will likely see no change in the near future. Even then it may lead to no real substantive, systematic change, beyond throwing those implicated under the bus as “bad apples” working “outside the confidence of leadership” that have been “removed to preserve the integrity of the league”, only to be replaced with equally (or even more) compliant officials.

The way VAR has been and continues to be employed to justify dubious decisions and cover officials’ “mistakes” without any real sustained scrutiny or functional accountability (either for VAR as a system or individual officials), often seemingly in lockstep with various media outlets, is an indication of this.

Too many different entities sucking from
the udders of the golden cow, fearful of where they’ll get their gilded milk if they expose it to be disease ridden.
 
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