Referees/Officials 2017/18 performances

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MillionMilesAway said:
Cheers. I'd seen those three names, but wasn't sure if they were the 3 referred to in a different part.

Seems like an odd three - one's gone, and Mason isn't one of them. I'd take Pawson over Mason any day.

Also Pawson has reffed City 9 times in the PL in total - 5W 3D 1L. Six were away and the defeat was at Liverpool. No sendings off, and the 3 draws were in 2015 or 2016, all away.

(according to http://www.worldfootball.net/referee_summary/craig-pawson/manchester-city/4/)
Click to expand...


Take out the big wins which Pawson cant realistically stop and it all falls apart. Mason seems awful but i'm not 100% convinced. The only one i'd really bet against City with is Taylor (not that I can bring myself to do it..!). The data sample with Pawson is really compelling but I think more evidence is needed.

Tight games under Pawson since 2011 - W2-1, 1-1 (L2-1 AET), L1-0, 2-2,0-0,0-0. May just be random chance but 1 win out of 6 tight games.....

Another good sign is to look at the league tables using results from the games the referee has been in charge of. The data is all there. I work out the points each team would have and then adjust for a 38 game season. So if a referee has had 20 games for one team, I work out their points from those games, multiply by 38 and divide by the number of games (ie 20). This is not an exact science but over several seasons shows some interesting and alarming stats.

First we need a reference point, so lets work out the average points per season for the teams over the last 6 years.

City 82
Chelsea 75
Utd 75
Arsenal 72
Spurs 72
Liverpool 67

So one team is clearly well ahead over that period and therefore over a 6 year sample we'd expect the games witheach of our referees under study to reflect that with some variance... or not as it happens..

Based on Pawson's games in this period the table would be :

Utd 90!!!! (+15)
Liverpool 74 (+7)
City 73 (-9)

Alarm bells start to ring especially as ALL OF THOSE GAMES ARE POST TAGGART when they have been awful!!!!!. It may just be random chance of course and it's not based on lots of games. Lets have a look at Taylor...

Utd 85 (+10pts)
Arsenal 81 (+9)
Liverpool 75 (+8)
City 72 (-10)

Starting to see a pattern yet??

Next let's look at Mason's league table

Chelsea 98 (+23)
Arsenal 85 (+13)
Utd 81 (+6)
Spurs 76 (+4)
City 73 (-12)

Doesn't look like a rag supporter despite our fears about him. City well below expected levels though. This could be an anomaly though (see below)

Of course there was a massive change in 2013 when Taggart retired so Utd's numbers may have been skewed by his two years in our study. So looking at the tables since Taggart, the average points are as follows:

City 82
Chelsea 77
Arsenal 73
Liverpool 72
Spurs 72
Utd 70

Pawson in these 5 seasons:

Utd 90!! (+20!!!)
Liverpool 74 (+2)
City 73 (-9)

Taylor

Utd 81 (+9)
Liverpool 78 (+6)
Arsenal 76 (+3)
City 65 (-17)

Mason

City 101
Chelsea 95
Arsenal 88
Utd 76

Suggests that in recent years, despite appearances Mason maybe isn't as awful as we think, but Taylor and Pawson just look like rag sympathisers....

The above is not actually 100% accurate as the referee based tables include cup games whereas the reference table are based on league points. To be really accurate I should have looked up all cup games for the teams and added to the reference data but I didn't have time.
 
I have seen the Delph foul several times now and a red card is not an outrageously wrong decision: Fabian did "jump" into the challenge and, to that extent, was "out of control". What is beyond question is that Taylor's handling of the incident was disgraceful and provoked a situation in which both clubs failed "to control their players". He produced a yellow card and seemed to note Delph's name on it. Then came the unpardonable error, the disastrous change of mind, when he actually produced the red card and sent Delph off. I think this is why Sergio was so obviously incensed and argued with Taylor because he had already been the victim of a challenge which fulfilled all the criteria for a red card and he must have wanted to know why he was denied the protection to which Wigan players were entitled. It must also have enraged more than a few of Sergio's team mates who could remember a previous encounter with Taylor when he had put his whistle to his mouth and his hand to his pocket (presumably) to take out the red card and send off David Luis for a blatant body check on Sergio, clear through on goal - only to change his mind and wave play on! Such a body check is actually a red card in rugby union, but Luis stayed on the field to enjoy kicking Sergio for the rest of the match without any interference from Taylor - until Sergio took matters into his own feet and got a red card. The Chelsea lad who retaliated by grabbing Sergio round the neck and hurling him to the ground got only a yellow as did Fabregas who then slapped Ferna across the face for no apparent reason. Needless to say Ferna got a red for supporting his enquiry about Fabregas's aims by clutching his throat. For Mr Taylor "protection" is a one way street.

This clearly upset the City staff on the touchline, but I suspect it was the change of mind which was the main cause of the "argybargy" between Messrs Guardiola and Cooper. The blame/credit for this change has generally been given to the fourth official, but I have a strong suspicion that City believe that the Wigan players, but even more so the Wigan touchline contingent, induced the official to get Taylor to produce the red. We saw, quite clearly, Mr Cooper making "card waving gestures" at the official and speaking at him in an animated fashion - AFTER Taylor had got out the yellow. I bet he was not praising the decision NOT to show the red! A referee who bows to pressure from a team is not a referee at all.

It is yet another unsavoury incident which confirms fans and many at the club in the belief that we will never get fair treatment from this referee in particular but also from several others.
 
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Bell1970 said:
Take out the big wins which Pawson cant realistically stop and it all falls apart. Mason seems awful but i'm not 100% convinced. The only one i'd really bet against City with is Taylor (not that I can bring myself to do it..!). The data sample with Pawson is really compelling but I think more evidence is needed.

Tight games under Pawson since 2011 - W2-1, 1-1 (L2-1 AET), L1-0, 2-2,0-0,0-0. May just be random chance but 1 win out of 6 tight games.....

Another good sign is to look at the league tables using results from the games the referee has been in charge of. The data is all there. I work out the points each team would have and then adjust for a 38 game season. So if a referee has had 20 games for one team, I work out their points from those games, multiply by 38 and divide by the number of games (ie 20). This is not an exact science but over several seasons shows some interesting and alarming stats.

First we need a reference point, so lets work out the average points per season for the teams over the last 6 years.

City 82
Chelsea 75
Utd 75
Arsenal 72
Spurs 72
Liverpool 67

So one team is clearly well ahead over that period and therefore over a 6 year sample we'd expect the games witheach of our referees under study to reflect that with some variance... or not as it happens..

Based on Pawson's games in this period the table would be :

Utd 90!!!! (+15)
Liverpool 74 (+7)
City 73 (-9)

Alarm bells start to ring especially as ALL OF THOSE GAMES ARE POST TAGGART when they have been awful!!!!!. It may just be random chance of course and it's not based on lots of games. Lets have a look at Taylor...

Utd 85 (+10pts)
Arsenal 81 (+9)
Liverpool 75 (+8)
City 72 (-10)

Starting to see a pattern yet??

Next let's look at Mason's league table

Chelsea 98 (+23)
Arsenal 85 (+13)
Utd 81 (+6)
Spurs 76 (+4)
City 73 (-12)

Doesn't look like a rag supporter despite our fears about him. City well below expected levels though. This could be an anomaly though (see below)

Of course there was a massive change in 2013 when Taggart retired so Utd's numbers may have been skewed by his two years in our study. So looking at the tables since Taggart, the average points are as follows:

City 82
Chelsea 77
Arsenal 73
Liverpool 72
Spurs 72
Utd 70

Pawson in these 5 seasons:

Utd 90!! (+20!!!)
Liverpool 74 (+2)
City 73 (-9)

Taylor

Utd 81 (+9)
Liverpool 78 (+6)
Arsenal 76 (+3)
City 65 (-17)

Mason

City 101
Chelsea 95
Arsenal 88
Utd 76

Suggests that in recent years, despite appearances Mason maybe isn't as awful as we think, but Taylor and Pawson just look like rag sympathisers....

The above is not actually 100% accurate as the referee based tables include cup games whereas the reference table are based on league points. To be really accurate I should have looked up all cup games for the teams and added to the reference data but I didn't have time.
Click to expand...

Why don't you, or somebody else from this forum (Ric?) send these stats to someone at the Club? Perhaps to Arteta, Vincent Kompany etc, but not to PR or front office.
City can hire a statistician to do more accurate work to present to PGMOL. Maybe the club already do this but from our perspective as fans nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.
 
San Tropez said:
Why don't you, or somebody else from this forum (Ric?) send these stats to someone at the Club? Perhaps to Arteta, Vincent Kompany etc, but not to PR or front office.
City can hire a statistician to do more accurate work to present to PGMOL. Maybe the club already do this but from our perspective as fans nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.
Click to expand...

The club must have analysts doing far deeper stuff than this in truth. I do this type of work to find an edge in the betting markets. If I can find solid edges that the masses dont really know about I can make money. I wouldn't know where to start re contacting the club beyond the obvious tbh

Personally I think the club needs to get tough in the way Taggart used to, but it wont be easy as he had sycophants ready to do his bidding throughout the English game. He pretty much banned a bunch of referees from the swamp in his latter years which helped him to control everything and everybody. The problem is that it created a whole level of unreality that became exposed in Europe. With such long term dominance domestically his Champs league record was pretty average where the referees were less accomodating to his crap.
I suspect we have given Mr Taylor a few interesting marks in the managers reports that we have to file and made it clear that we dont want him for any big games. To be fair Wigan shouldn't have been a big game, we just missed our chances and had an off day.
 
San Tropez said:
Why don't you, or somebody else from this forum (Ric?) send these stats to someone at the Club? Perhaps to Arteta, Vincent Kompany etc, but not to PR or front office.
City can hire a statistician to do more accurate work to present to PGMOL. Maybe the club already do this but from our perspective as fans nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.
Click to expand...
I have heard that the club contracts a statistician to keep up with officiating outcomes, though, I’ve not got any direct information for it. From what I understand it came about after the 2012/2013 season.

I do know the club definitely has in-house data analysts that would be more than capable of providing these sorts of running assessments if they had access to valid datasets.
 
TBooksbluearmy said:
It is time that PGMOL, bring him to book and asked him why he sent Fabian Delph off
Click to expand...
He shouldn't be changing his mind about things in the way he did, and I think he's bent when he refs us, but if that had been one of theirs on one of ours, we'd have been screaming for a red card, its a shit tackle, yes it could go either way, but Delph needs to learn from it, and not dive in like that again.

These c**ts don't need an excuse, so don't give them one.
 
HypnoticBlue said:
Perhaps a hit squad would make more sense, as these bent f!****s will not stop screwing us over.
Click to expand...

Maybe a little much, but certainly intimidate and scare them straight. Every time Taylor sets foot on the Edihad campus, he should be afraid for his safety. Maybe then he will ask to avoid out matches, or the FA will push to have him reassigned.
 
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