Reform UK Party Limited Company

I was posting this on the Tommy Robinson thread but correctly got pulled ,
There’s absolutely no place for this far right bull shit or left, if they’d of had their way I’d of been gone two years ago.
I’ve been treated from doctors and nurses from every continent in the world . Seriously I don’t normally get worked up on here but reading some of stuff reform pump out is upsetting. I get everyone is entitled to a view but this my view.
I wouldn’t wish cancer on no one but … the immigration bile I read is disgraceful,
Put them in my shoes and let a radiologist from Egypt, an oncologist from India consultant from China , receptionist from Armenia not enter these this great country we have.

Emotional rant sorry
Up the blues.
 
A57 the snake said:
I was posting this on the Tommy Robinson thread but correctly got pulled ,
There’s absolutely no place for this far right bull shit or left, if they’d of had their way I’d of been gone two years ago.
I’ve been treated from doctors and nurses from every continent in the world . Seriously I don’t normally get worked up on here but reading some of stuff reform pump out is upsetting. I get everyone is entitled to a view but this my view.
I wouldn’t wish cancer on no one but … the immigration bile I read is disgraceful,
Put them in my shoes and let a radiologist from Egypt, an oncologist from India consultant from China , receptionist from Armenia not enter these this great country we have.

Emotional rant sorry
Up the blues.
Click to expand...
The reality should wake people up.

Stay safe, my friend. We care.
 
metalblue said:
Your post reminds me of the psychology of war. To get man to fight man you have to make people believe they aren’t the same as you - not just not like you but dehumanise them.

Some are obvious, they pray to a different god, their skin colour isn’t the same. Other less so, one of the lines peddled for the Germans in WW2 was they didn’t play cricket. Russia fighting their brothers in Ukraine? No problem, they’re nazis.

It’s the same tactic when it comes to immigration.
Click to expand...

The fact that we can be made to turn on others so easily tells me that our brains are hardwired for tribalistic living. We still think like that. Which means that, neurologically, we're not well-adapted for the challenges that we face in this century, like global warming.

We're a territorial species too. For us, it's all about defending sacred spaces and territory (like, say, the Cenotaph or Regent Street in London with its seasonal decorations) from contamination.

For me, that's what the rise of the radical right is all about. The populists that front their parties are adept at appealing to this side of us.

But populism of this sort isn't just a right-wing phenomenon. Left-wing populists like Galloway have done the same thing successfully too. And Islamists. Their desire to establish a pure Caliphate and the demonization of the kafir expresses the same tendency.

The picture quality isn't that good but this documentary charts the stages we pass through on the way to becoming willing to exterminate 'the Other':

 
A57 the snake said:
I was posting this on the Tommy Robinson thread but correctly got pulled ,
There’s absolutely no place for this far right bull shit or left, if they’d of had their way I’d of been gone two years ago.
I’ve been treated from doctors and nurses from every continent in the world . Seriously I don’t normally get worked up on here but reading some of stuff reform pump out is upsetting. I get everyone is entitled to a view but this my view.
I wouldn’t wish cancer on no one but … the immigration bile I read is disgraceful,
Put them in my shoes and let a radiologist from Egypt, an oncologist from India consultant from China , receptionist from Armenia not enter these this great country we have.

Emotional rant sorry
Up the blues.
Click to expand...

Wishing you the best mate.
 
An issue of the right is that there are two main philosophies.

1. Small state and low taxes. This means leaving as much as possible to the private sector, quite possibly including the NHS*. Minimal regulation, as these people believe that having high standards is just so much red tape and bureaucracy that stifles business. (These are the lineal descendants of 19th-century railway directors who fought the imposition of automatic brakes on passenger trains on the grounds it was all too costly.) Not that bothered about race or immigration, to be honest, especially if it keeps wages down. Not really bothered about gays or transpeople either, but sometimes pretend to object for the sake of seeming 'conservative.' Strong tendency towards libertarianism, with less state involvement in what might be called social matters. Arguably these people are not conservatives in the old sense, but radicals.

2. High welfare state, with lots of nice benefits for 'us'. Not for those horrid foreign johnnies. Investment in infrastructure desired - call it 'levelling up'. Not massively bothered about tax, and would be happy for the rich (not them) to pay more. Prefers low or zero immigration and not bothered about the practical consequences. Wants the NHS or something broadly similar, but no real plan to manage it without the input of foreigners. Would probably favour training more of 'our own' in fairness. Suspicious of foreigners at best and hostile to international organisations and even treaties. Would ideally like an autarkic UK where we magically grow all our own food and make everything we need. (Unspoken) often xenophobic or downright racist but always say: 'I'm not a racist, but...' Haters of change in society, and indeed change of any sort. Nostalgic for a past golden age - usually when they were kids with no responsibility.

How you accommodate both these visions in one party is hard to imagine. Johnson managed it for a time, with Brexit as glue, but that glue no longer sticks and certainly does not hold together such divergent desires.


*Anyone who thinks replacing the NHS with a private sector will be cheaper is kidding themselves. It will be dearer, maybe much dearer, but you will pay less income tax/NI but more on private insurance and direct payments. Attractive to the very rich.
 
ZenHalfTimeCrock said:
The fact that we can be made to turn on others so easily tells me that our brains are hardwired for tribalistic living. We still think like that. Which means that, neurologically, we're not well-adapted for the challenges that we face in this century, like global warming.

We're a territorial species too. For us, it's all about defending sacred spaces and territory (like, say, the Cenotaph or Regent Street in London with its seasonal decorations) from contamination.

For me, that's what the rise of the radical right is all about. The populists that front their parties are adept at appealing to this side of us.

But populism of this sort isn't just a right-wing phenomenon. Left-wing populists like Galloway have done the same thing successfully too. And Islamists. Their desire to establish a pure Caliphate and the demonization of the kafir expresses the same tendency.

The picture quality isn't that good but this documentary charts the stages we pass through on the way to becoming willing to exterminate 'the Other':

Click to expand...


That was a great watch. It goes to show we just need to think you’re different…
 
BrianW said:
An issue of the right is that there are two main philosophies.

1. Small state and low taxes. This means leaving as much as possible to the private sector, quite possibly including the NHS*. Minimal regulation, as these people believe that having high standards is just so much red tape and bureaucracy that stifles business. (These are the lineal descendants of 19th-century railway directors who fought the imposition of automatic brakes on passenger trains on the grounds it was all too costly.) Not that bothered about race or immigration, to be honest, especially if it keeps wages down. Not really bothered about gays or transpeople either, but sometimes pretend to object for the sake of seeming 'conservative.' Strong tendency towards libertarianism, with less state involvement in what might be called social matters. Arguably these people are not conservatives in the old sense, but radicals.

2. High welfare state, with lots of nice benefits for 'us'. Not for those horrid foreign johnnies. Investment in infrastructure desired - call it 'levelling up'. Not massively bothered about tax, and would be happy for the rich (not them) to pay more. Prefers low or zero immigration and not bothered about the practical consequences. Wants the NHS or something broadly similar, but no real plan to manage it without the input of foreigners. Would probably favour training more of 'our own' in fairness. Suspicious of foreigners at best and hostile to international organisations and even treaties. Would ideally like an autarkic UK where we magically grow all our own food and make everything we need. (Unspoken) often xenophobic or downright racist but always say: 'I'm not a racist, but...' Haters of change in society, and indeed change of any sort. Nostalgic for a past golden age - usually when they were kids with no responsibility.

How you accommodate both these visions in one party is hard to imagine. Johnson managed it for a time, with Brexit as glue, but that glue no longer sticks and certainly does not hold together such divergent desires.


*Anyone who thinks replacing the NHS with a private sector will be cheaper is kidding themselves. It will be dearer, maybe much dearer, but you will pay less income tax/NI but more on private insurance and direct payments. Attractive to the very rich.
Click to expand...

I think it’s far more nuanced than this but fair play for giving it a stab.

To just pick up on one of your observations about resistance to chance and wanting to harp back to a golden era - this is exactly the same rap sheet that could be thrown at unions.

Some will find this uncomfortable but the primary difference to the majority on the left or right is not on where we want to go, but how to get there.
 
A57 the snake said:
I was posting this on the Tommy Robinson thread but correctly got pulled ,
There’s absolutely no place for this far right bull shit or left, if they’d of had their way I’d of been gone two years ago.
I’ve been treated from doctors and nurses from every continent in the world . Seriously I don’t normally get worked up on here but reading some of stuff reform pump out is upsetting. I get everyone is entitled to a view but this my view.
I wouldn’t wish cancer on no one but … the immigration bile I read is disgraceful,
Put them in my shoes and let a radiologist from Egypt, an oncologist from India consultant from China , receptionist from Armenia not enter these this great country we have.

Emotional rant sorry
Up the blues.
Click to expand...
Well said mate. We should be thankful, not disdainful, that we live in a vibrant, multicultural country. Wishing you good health.
 
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