Religion

[Octavian]

Yes, there are more believers than non-believers, but drill down a little further and you are in the minority.
Around 30% of the world's population are estimated to be of the Christian faith and follow the bible's creation story. Therefore 70% are of other religions or atheist who do not believe in the bible's version.
Hindu's have their Lotus flower growing out of Vishnu's navel and splitting into earth, heaven and sky.
Muslims have a different version of the big bang where a "godly day" was equivalent to 50,000 years.
Ancient Greeks believed in a Chaos, Gaia, Mother Earth, Uranus and a load of other gods.
Taoists have a serpent inside an egg that divided into two.
Some North American native tribes tell of beavers, otters and ducks, diving into the sea and piling soil on to the back of a giant turtle to create earth.
Moses's version is just another one to add to the list. They can't all be right - but they could all be wrong.

I’m an agnostic, I’m in a minority tho for sure

 

[arfurclue]

You’d like his music threads then.
Lots of opinions and debate about the good and the bad, but everyone accepting that it’s all subjective.

Yes, sure. And I find his tone very different in those threads. Enjoyable, even :)

 

[tonea2003]

Are you purposely twisting what I’m writing?

genuine question because “my dad is bigger than your dad” is very far from what point I was trying to make.

The point I was trying to make is calling billions of people thick and scared because of their religious beliefs is absurd. You’ve no idea what lead them to that belief or what they’re experience has been. I was giving an example of the sample size of people being stereotyped

The majority will just be religious because they’ve grown up in a country where everyone is and they’re taught it from a young age. but others go to it not through being stupid or scared but other reasons.

The only rule to getting into heaven in the New Testament is faith in Jesus, as a faith there is no real code. The “law”, as Paul put it, is there as an example of how to live but it’s not a determining factor on salvation.

not once have i said they are thick, now who's twisting words
i do, indoctrination as children by parents,schools and church
there is a genuine fear with a lot of people of faith undoubtedly there is, that was my point
and below is a snapshot the type of things i mean

none of this is faith in jesus

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

a bit of the fear factor from mark

And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.

god loves us all equally, well not quite all

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

maybe this is faith in jesus, sounds like a threat to me though

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

and how dare you graft your bollocks off and earn a few coin

And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. Jesus, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Octavian]

not once have i said they are thick, now who's twisting words
there is a genuine fear with a lot of people of faith undoubtedly there is, that was my point

none of this is faith in jesus

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

a bit of the fear factor from mark

(1) And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.

god loves us all equally, well not quite all

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. (2) But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

maybe this is faith in jesus, sounds like a threat to me though

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

and how dare you graft your bollocks off and earn a few coin

And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. Jesus, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. (3)…

Now I know you’re not doing it on purpose, you’re forgetting who started the conversation and who I replied to.

That Bluehammer chap called them thick and that is who I was responding to, you questioned my reply but I was still referencing him calling them thick.

I’ve added numbers to your reply so I can respond:

(1) This is a parable, metaphors and parables were very common in Jewish religious teaching and Jesus specifically used them to make his points - or so the gospels claim. An example of this would be if you’re going to the pub every night, getting drunk and this is causing you to sin, then stop going, cut that out of your life. If you have a friend that’s leading you astray, cut them out and do the right thing.

(2) what do you think the last bit of that passage means? This is Paul by the way in his letters. Off the top of my head I think it’s Corinthians.

(3) This goes on to say “but through God anything is possible

2 and 3 are condemning people for their sins but then go on to say that through the blood of Christ Jesus you have been sanctified and have received salvation.

 

[vmsuhail]

Elizabeth and Aaron.

It gets it mixed up with John the Baptists mother and a relative of Moses who lived over 1000 years before, confusing the two figures.

There is only a passing reference to Elizabeth(ra) in the Qur'an. I think you are probably referring to the "O sister of Aaron(as)" epithet used for Mary(ra), mother of Jesus(as). This was questioned by the Christians at the time itself, and it was relayed back to the Prophet who explained that it was only a way of addressing her.

Mughira b. Shu'ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Harun" (i. e. Hadrat Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Messenger of Allah ﷺ I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.
(Sahih Muslim 2135)

 

[tonea2003]

Now I know you’re not doing it on purpose, you’re forgetting who started the conversation and who I replied to.

That Bluehammer chap called them thick and that is who I was responding to, you questioned my reply but I was still referencing him calling them thick.

I’ve added numbers to your reply so I can respond:

(1) This is a parable, metaphors and parables were very common in Jewish religious teaching and Jesus specifically used them to make his points - or so the gospels claim. An example of this would be if you’re going to the pub every night, getting drunk and this is causing you to sin, then stop going, cut that out of your life. If you have a friend that’s leading you astray, cut them out and do the right thing.

parable or no parable its a threat

(2) what do you think the last bit of that passage means? This is Paul by the way in his letters. Off the top of my head I think it’s Corinthians.

don't do the above of course, yes its paul but the new testament never the less

(3) This goes on to say “but through God anything is possible

2 and 3 are condemning people for their sins but then go on to say that through the blood of Christ Jesus you have been sanctified and have received salvation.

3 is condemning someone who is rich that is not a sin

 

[Fiftyyearsandcounting]

Do you ever read poetry? Just that poems are one way that universal themes can be expressed in many different ways. Might even find that the point of them can be to lure you into that which is beyond right or wrong, and in that way come to see life in a different light.

There once was a man from East Cheam
Who invented a churning machine
But on the 10th stroke
The bloody thing broke
And battered his bollocks to cream

 

[Octavian]

parable or no parable its a threat

don't do the above of course, yes its paul but the new testament never the less

3 is condemning someone who is rich that is not a sin

Of course it’s a threat. According to New Testament doctrine you’re at risk of eternal punishment if you sin and don’t repent. The gospel of Mark tho is talking about it from a perspective of the Kingdom of heaven coming to Earth and repent before this happens.

Not sure what the middle sentence means, I wasn’t saying it was Paul as a negative as Paul’s theology is in line with the New Testament. Which says to me he had scripture earlier than 50AD but that’s a different point.

Greed is specifically mentioned as a sin several times, even attributed to Jesus himself.

The point is, accepting Jesus and repenting means you’re saved even if you do sin. There isn’t a code for salvation, more a guide to how you’re supposed to live as Paul outlines.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

I never say fuck reigion. I lament the negative outcome of adhering to its numerous incantations. I lament the rejection of rationality, that is parked when people believe in a book so littered by horror and fantasy, not to mention, clear mistakes about how the universe began. There are still so many things we do not undersrand about this and indeed, may never solve, but to put god in that gap isn't intelligent. It denudes intelligence. I can and do get all misty eyed at the majesty of the universe, of the abundance and beauty of life. At the good side of people and humanity. Our compassion and solidarity. The difference is I don't give the credit to any man made god.

I remember the day when my second son was in hospital for a hernia fixing op as a baby. When he was ready to come home, we went to get him and he had been put onto a ward that had little kids with cancer. I saw them and the anguish etched on the faces of their parents. I vowed that even if someone conclusively proved god existed, I would never worship such an absolute **** who would visit such agony on innocent children and their parents.

And if youre reading this Jesus, you are a ****.

Well said mate…very well said.

 

[Octavian]

There is only a passing reference to Elizabeth(ra) in the Qur'an. I think you are probably referring to the "O sister of Aaron(as)" epithet used for Mary(ra), mother of Jesus(as). This was questioned by the Christians at the time itself, and it was relayed back to the Prophet who explained that it was only a way of addressing her.

Mughira b. Shu'ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Harun" (i. e. Hadrat Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Messenger of Allah ﷺ I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.
(Sahih Muslim 2135)

Yes that’s right but Elizabeth is Mary’s cousin in the New Testament and it gets the whole relationship mixed up and who Aaron is. I must admit I don’t have the experience of studying the Quran, I have just read bits of it and what I’m doing here is taking other people’s word for it.

Why would they call Mary the sister of a prophet from 1000 years earlier and do others get similar treatment?

Also there’s a mistake with Imran and it’s tried to be corrected to Jesus’s grandfather, Mary’s father but in the Bible it’s Joachim.