Religion

mancity2012_eamo said:
More wine Vicar?
It’s Christmas for Christ’s sake.

Let’s put aside all this religious nonsense aside for one day.
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;-)
“A day of Silence
Can be a pilgrimage in itself.

A day of Silence
Can help you listen
To the Soul play
Its marvelous lute and drum.

Is not most talking
A crazed defense of a crumbling fort?

I thought we came here
To surrender in Silence,

To yield to Light and Happiness,

To Dance within,
In celebration of Love's Victory”
― Hafez, I Heard God Laughing: Poems of Hope and Joy
 
bluealf said:
A pile of shite that has caused a lot of trouble in history and the here and now and no doubt in the future.

Odd that most religions believe they are peaceful.
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I would tend to agree, even as a former teacher of religion and philosophy. The only major faith that I know of that serves as an exception is Jainism.

I would also disagree with those who take the view that the troublemakers are not representative of a faith that - correctly understood - is essentially peaceable, though it would take a long post to explain why.

However, it’s the literalists, the puritans and the moral absolutists, those who tend to see the world in rigidly defined black and white terms, who are convinced of their own rightness and who are incapable of tolerating ambiguity, and who divide the world into ‘us’ and ‘them’, into ‘in groups’ and despised ‘out groups’, that are often to blame for the trouble that you mention.

These evangelical zealots also feature prominently in the history of secular ideologies, and cause untold damage as a consequence. Obviously, I am thinking of characters like Mao, Stalin and Hitler here. But I would also want to include characters like Milton Friedman, the “Chicago Boys”, and supporters of Ayn Rand in this category. Anti-vaxxers and QAnon supporters are another example, as their views are never susceptible to falsification.

That’s why I much prefer anarchists like the Taoist sage Chuang Tzu (‘The torch of chaos and doubt, that is what the sage steers by’) or philosophers like Socrates (“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”) and sceptics like David Hume when it comes to this territory. In other words, those who exhibit a bit of humility when it comes to what we can be sure of. The best scientists also tend to be like this, as they are open to having their research revised, refined or even disproved by others.
 
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arfurclue said:
;-)
“A day of Silence
Can be a pilgrimage in itself.

A day of Silence
Can help you listen
To the Soul play
Its marvelous lute and drum.

Is not most talking
A crazed defense of a crumbling fort?

I thought we came here
To surrender in Silence,

To yield to Light and Happiness,

To Dance within,
In celebration of Love's Victory”
― Hafez, I Heard God Laughing: Poems of Hope and Joy
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When it comes to Islamic poetry, I do like the Sufis but have more of a preference for the verses of the bisexual, hellraising, wine-imbibing, Shane MacGowan-like Abu Nuwas. Here’s an example:

‘Oh Sulayman, sing to me and give me a cup of wine…
And if the wine comes around, seize it and give it to me.
Give me a cup of distraction from the Muezzin’s call,
Give me wine to drink publicly,
And fuck and bugger me now!’
 
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ZenHalfTimeCrock said:
When it comes to Islamic poetry, I do like the Sufis but have more of a preference for the verses of the bisexual, hellraising, wine-imbibing, Shane MacGowan-like Abu Nuwas. Here’s an example:

‘Oh Sulayman, sing to me and give me a cup of wine…
And if the wine comes around, seize it and give it to me.
Give me a cup of distraction from the Muezzin’s call,
Give me wine to drink publicly,
And fuck and bugger me now!’
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This reminds me of the likes of ‘crazy wisdom’ and/or ‘the left hand path.’ Different ways to look at it but there can be those that come along that will not fit into the ideals of egoic morality and/or the current prevailing orthodoxy.
 
To open to the beauty of the heart brings its own joy. To be closed to the heart, leaves one with the mind of good and bad with which to decide what should be rewarded or punished. The former lends itself to the cultivation of inner discipline, the latter more driven towards the enforcing of outer discipline. Not so hard to see which the majority of the world chooses.
 
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arfurclue said:
This reminds me of the likes of ‘crazy wisdom’ and/or ‘the left hand path.’ Different ways to look at it but there can be those that come along that will not fit into the ideals of egoic morality and/or the current prevailing orthodoxy.
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arfurclue said:
To open to the beauty of the heart brings its own joy. To be closed to the heart, leaves one with the mind of good and bad with which to decide what should be rewarded or punished. The former lends itself to the cultivation of inner discipline, the latter more driven towards the enforcing of outer discipline. Not so hard to see which the majority of the world chooses.
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I reckon most people have parts of their personality, or at least individual choices they’ve taken in life, that fall into this.

However, this is also where the ideas of cults come from, people like Charles Manson was big on egoic morality. So it’s a line that should be tread carefully, taking into account why society presents morality as it does.
 
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Psychedelic Casual said:
I reckon most people have parts of their personality, or at least individual choices they’ve taken in life, that fall into this.

However, this is also where the ideas of cults come from, people like Charles Manson was big on egoic morality. So it’s a line that should be tread carefully, taking into account why society presents morality as it does.
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Unless I’m mistaken, someone like Manson would see himself as an enforcer of morality, in a way that he would believe that others fail to do so? Cults would be about having special access to a moral guidance that others lack, sort of thing? In a way, this is (for me) what the heart is about - almost like a liberation of an essential goodness that is already within us, beyond the moralistic rights and wrongs of the ego mind that wants to be the boss…
 
arfurclue said:
To open to the beauty of the heart brings its own joy. To be closed to the heart, leaves one with the mind of good and bad with which to decide what should be rewarded or punished. The former lends itself to the cultivation of inner discipline, the latter more driven towards the enforcing of outer discipline. Not so hard to see which the majority of the world chooses.
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Quite so Master Po.
That’s the heart covered.
How are you on the spleen.
And the venting of.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Spleen? Liver?
Venting your colon is about the only thing I can’t stomach.
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Take your pick of organs or don’t :) Either way, if safely letting go of suppressed emotions can reduce tension - which can then allow one to navigate stressful events in a more fluid way - then that might not be such a bad thing. Especially if, hypothetically speaking, some crazy situation were to happen in the world, maybe it could even be helpful?
 
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