Rewriting of History - Part II

JohnMaddocksAxe

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Just a quick one. Not a debate about whether Hughes is the right man or not - he's not, in my view and never will be. The results speak for themselves.

However, answers to this one please.

After the Everton game I questioned why people were rewriting history and denying that prior to the start of the season (and especially at the end of the transfer window) they considered the performances and results so far to be completely unacceptable and to represent just about the worst possible job that could be done with this squad. ie: they would have thought that any manager taking this squad to the bottom three did not deserve much support.

People were making all sorts of excuses that they know they would not have even considered making and would have laughed at the impossibility of it all if the scenario was put to them at the start of the season.

Anyway, at that point the most ardent Hughes backers were strongly in favour of the next three games (Hull, West Brom and Blackburn) being the turning point and many were of the opinion that this is where it is turned around, with at least six points being the only valid return - proof that Hughes is taking us places. In fact, they were extremely vocal that to judge him before this run of games was not on.

Well, 4 points from these games and now I spy people trying to turn it around and spin it into something positive. A nice bit of "4 points from 2 games" statistical spin thrown in there too, completely ignoring the first game of the three.

So, my question to those who think that the long ball dirge served up yesterday (combined with an inability to obtain decent possession for massive periods against a team with one less midfielder and a 37 year old in the middle) was anything that even slightly resembles progress is this:



Please show me where a single person stated, prior to the West Brom game, that 4 points from the last 3 games would be a decent return. Failing that, does anyone want to try to claim that prior to the West Brom game they thought that 4 points from 9 was what we should be aiming for and would be something that is anything other than more underperformance from the team that the manager is leading?





Cos there were plenty of people pointing to the potential 6+ point returns on offer from these games as a defence of Hughes being given time or making progress.

(Ps: don't make this into a - "you can't sack him now, the timing is not right, the window is about to open, he'll turn it around then with more signings" thread. We all know that a dead monkey could turn it around with another £80m worth of signings to go on top of the £80m he's already had. That has no bearing whatsoever as to whether he has produced anything like acceptable results and performances.)
 
fair point

if you said to me before the west brom game we would get 4 points from the next 3 i wouldnt really be happy

and i personally put 5 points as the minimum we should have got...but looking back now...probably thanks to other results...things dont look so bad...not far off europe again!!

i hate being an optimist!
 
Like it or not Hughes is here and until someone better comes along then we have to stick by him. Simple as that.

It's not as if theres 5 or 6 top top managers unemployed waiting in the wings whilst we capitulate with Hughes, if he went now we'd spend the rest of the season with a caretaker manager and skeletal backroom coaching stuff which wouldnt help anybody at all.

I'm as unsure of Hughes as the next fan but until we can replace him with better then it'd be stupid to give him the boot. Look at it this way, we blatantly need a quality left back but that doesnt mean we should sell Ball and Garrido, no, we firstly need to buy a quality left back then sell Ball or Garrido as opposed to shipping out the poor quality and hoping one day soon we find a replacement.
 
The results have started to improve as City have not been playing twice as many games as opponents.

Now it is us scoring last minute and not them.
 
TheMightyQuinn said:
Like it or not Hughes is here and until someone better comes along then we have to stick by him. Simple as that.

It's not as if theres 5 or 6 top top managers unemployed waiting in the wings whilst we capitulate with Hughes, if he went now we'd spend the rest of the season with a caretaker manager and skeletal backroom coaching stuff which wouldnt help anybody at all.

I'm as unsure of Hughes as the next fan but until we can replace him with better then it'd be stupid to give him the boot. Look at it this way, we blatantly need a quality left back but that doesnt mean we should sell Ball and Garrido, no, we firstly need to buy a quality left back then sell Ball or Garrido as opposed to shipping out the poor quality and hoping one day soon we find a replacement.


I know he isn't going anywhere. That doesn't make it right. There's no defence for what he has served up and it is completely unacceptable with this squad.

Anyway, Joe Kinnear is going to probably keep Newcastle up. The caretaker from the local church hall could keep this City squad up, especially with a shitload of new signings in january as well. That's no defence for keeping Hughes, he has taken this squad to depths not thought possible and it shows no signs of improving (4 from 9 is a poor return from those games for this squad).
 
Corky said:
The results have started to improve as City have not been playing twice as many games as opponents.

Now it is us scoring last minute and not them.


Really?

4 points from West Brom, Hull and Blackburn?

That's improved results? Well, maybe, just maybe but if that is an improvement then it just shows what shite depths the man had led us to for this to be considered an improvement.

More to the point, if this is something to celebrate are you going to be the person who shows me where you stated that 4 points from these three games would be a good return?

(Or, if you want, just have the brazen front to state that prior to the West Brom game you really thought that 4 points would be 'good stuff' or 'evidence of an improvement', even if it wasn't stated on here)
 
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
TheMightyQuinn said:
Like it or not Hughes is here and until someone better comes along then we have to stick by him. Simple as that.

It's not as if theres 5 or 6 top top managers unemployed waiting in the wings whilst we capitulate with Hughes, if he went now we'd spend the rest of the season with a caretaker manager and skeletal backroom coaching stuff which wouldnt help anybody at all.

I'm as unsure of Hughes as the next fan but until we can replace him with better then it'd be stupid to give him the boot. Look at it this way, we blatantly need a quality left back but that doesnt mean we should sell Ball and Garrido, no, we firstly need to buy a quality left back then sell Ball or Garrido as opposed to shipping out the poor quality and hoping one day soon we find a replacement.


I know he isn't going anywhere. That doesn't make it right. There's no defence for what he has served up and it is completely unacceptable with this squad.

Anyway, Joe Kinnear is going to probably keep Newcastle up. The caretaker from the local church hall could keep this City squad up, especially with a shitload of new signings in january as well. That's no defence for keeping Hughes, he has taken this squad to depths not thought possible and it shows no signs of improving (4 from 9 is a poor return from those games for this squad).

I'm just saying - we get rid of Hughes if/when a decent replacement is ready and waiting to take over and not before. It's not going to help anyone at all if we play the remainder of the season with some random caretaker and a few random coaches is it? Like it or lump it we have no better options as things stand and Hughes must stay. You never know, if we can string a few wins together and start drawing the games we've been losing then things will look a whole better soon.

My argument for Hughes to stay to even the most ardent anti Hughes fan would be that there is no replacement for him at the moment and it's better to have a manager than none at all. Kinnear may keep Newcastle up but he's unlikely to attract any new talent with his position being so temporary and he'll struggle to keep a few of his better players if they're offered anything new.
 
Nope. You make a good point JMA

I was one of the 6 min from those 3 games and during that time i never gave Hughes too much stick.

But not only has he acquired a pitiful 4 points, but the football has been sh*te. (oh Hull aside, i cant criticise a 5-1 romp).

Everton, Baggies, and Blackburn, and a host of previous games have seen City with some fantastic individuals but as for being a team (which IMO is down to the manager to get sorted) we have fallen well below an acceptable standard.

But he is here till the end of the season i reckon. But as other posters are saying, win or lose, that will probably be the end of his tenure.
 
TheMightyQuinn said:
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
I know he isn't going anywhere. That doesn't make it right. There's no defence for what he has served up and it is completely unacceptable with this squad.

Anyway, Joe Kinnear is going to probably keep Newcastle up. The caretaker from the local church hall could keep this City squad up, especially with a shitload of new signings in january as well. That's no defence for keeping Hughes, he has taken this squad to depths not thought possible and it shows no signs of improving (4 from 9 is a poor return from those games for this squad).

I'm just saying - we get rid of Hughes if/when a decent replacement is ready and waiting to take over and not before. It's not going to help anyone at all if we play the remainder of the season with some random caretaker and a few random coaches is it? Like it or lump it we have no better options as things stand and Hughes must stay. You never know, if we can string a few wins together and start drawing the games we've been losing then things will look a whole better soon.

My argument for Hughes to stay to even the most ardent anti Hughes fan would be that there is no replacement for him at the moment and it's better to have a manager than none at all. Kinnear may keep Newcastle up but he's unlikely to attract any new talent with his position being so temporary and he'll struggle to keep a few of his better players if they're offered anything new.

Alright, but who exactly is Hughes going to personally attract? Bellamy, Santa Cruz?

As much as they would be a bit of an improvement on the current strikers, any bigger signings who come here in January, the sort of signings who are going to be really important to the long term future, really couldn't give a fuck if Hughes is the manager or not. Is Kaka or Villa, if they are obtainable now or in the summer, going to sign because of Hughes or because the Arabs are throwing money at them?

In fact, given the in fighting, turmoil and league position he has led them to, what do you think is more likely? Robinho ssaying to the likes of Kaka " you must sign, we have a brilliant manager in place who we all love" or " look, sign, the club is going places and this joker, who some of the squad apparently don't like, is likely to be gone by the end of the season, so don't let that worry you"?

I don't think any caretaker who comes in would take this squad down so if the reasoon for keeping Hughes is that he migth attract Bellamy in Jan and that might help us stay up then I'm quite willing to take the chance.
 
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
Alright, but who exactly is Hughes going to personally attract? Bellamy, Santa Cruz?

As much as they would be a bit of an improvement on the current strikers, any bigger signings who come here in January, the sort of signings who are going to be really important to the long term future, really couldn't give a fuck if Hughes is the manager or not. Is Kaka or Villa, if they are obtainable now or in the summer, going to sign because of Hughes or because the Arabs are throwing money at them?

In fact, given the in fighting, turmoil and league position he has led them to, what do you think is more likely? Robinho ssaying to the likes of Kaka " you must sign, we have a brilliant manager in place who we all love" or " look, sign, the club is going places and this joker, who some of the squad apparently don't like, is likely to be gone by the end of the season, so don't let that worry you"?

I don't think any caretaker who comes in would take this squad down so if the reasoon for keeping Hughes is that he migth attract Bellamy in Jan and that might help us stay up then I'm quite willing to take the chance.

Who knows what Robinho tells the other players lol he's incredibly happy here for whatever reason and he really does seem to believe in our long term strategy.

I take your point re Hughes but players aside he's much more likely to deliver a good run of results between now and May than some caretaker manager.

If Mourinho is knocking on the door demanding the job then fine, Hughes can go but until we get better we're stuck with him and have to make the best of it. Besides, this is all very negative, Hughes could still be 'the one'!
 
i reckon he will get us into top 8 this season and that his signings in january will be good. the board will give him more time because they realise he is a good manager and that the main problem is with some of the players not performing or being good enough.
 
TheMightyQuinn said:
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
Alright, but who exactly is Hughes going to personally attract? Bellamy, Santa Cruz?

As much as they would be a bit of an improvement on the current strikers, any bigger signings who come here in January, the sort of signings who are going to be really important to the long term future, really couldn't give a fuck if Hughes is the manager or not. Is Kaka or Villa, if they are obtainable now or in the summer, going to sign because of Hughes or because the Arabs are throwing money at them?

In fact, given the in fighting, turmoil and league position he has led them to, what do you think is more likely? Robinho ssaying to the likes of Kaka " you must sign, we have a brilliant manager in place who we all love" or " look, sign, the club is going places and this joker, who some of the squad apparently don't like, is likely to be gone by the end of the season, so don't let that worry you"?

I don't think any caretaker who comes in would take this squad down so if the reasoon for keeping Hughes is that he migth attract Bellamy in Jan and that might help us stay up then I'm quite willing to take the chance.

Who knows what Robinho tells the other players lol he's incredibly happy here for whatever reason and he really does seem to believe in our long term strategy.

I take your point re Hughes but players aside he's much more likely to deliver a good run of results between now and May than some caretaker manager.

If Mourinho is knocking on the door demanding the job then fine, Hughes can go but until we get better we're stuck with him and have to make the best of it. Besides, this is all very negative, Hughes could still be 'the one'!

I disagree. Why is he more likely to prodcue results than a caretaker?

His methods so far have produced nothing other than utter disappointment, with some rumours that there is disent and unrest in the squad.

Therefore, he is starting the second half of the season from a position where his methods are not working and possibly with some players not believing in him.

A caretaker, whoever it is, starts froma position where his methods may or may not work (as opposed to defintely aren't working) and a clean slate regarding the player's attitude. That's an immediate advantage.

Add to this that their only main remit will be to keep the squad happy for 6 months and they won't be looking to put anyone's nose out of joint with an eye to the future, then there;s another positive.

Players are coming to this club in the next few years. Everyone knows it. It's not like Newcastle where people will look at instability and think 'I don't fancy that mediocre prospect'. And players won't leave like Owen will unless they are scared of the competition that will arrive.

The money means that a caretaker manager will have little to no negative effect on future prospects.

Far from being a reason to keep him, it gives the chance to make the right decision immediately without letting him fester.
 
heatonmoorblue said:
i reckon he will get us into top 8 this season and that his signings in january will be good. the board will give him more time because they realise he is a good manager and that the main problem is with some of the players not performing or being good enough.


Yeah, so are you the one who was saying 'Four points from 3 games will be a good return'?

ps: who, if not the manager, is responsible for getting the players and team to perform? Is Hughes the first manager in history not to be responsible for this?
 
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
Just a quick one. Not a debate about whether Hughes is the right man or not - he's not, in my view and never will be. The results speak for themselves.

this makes answering your post/question completely pointless.....you clearly dont want to give MH a chance....

would you change your opinion if he went onto take city into the top 8 this season?
 

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