Riot in Tottenham (continued)

[bluevengence]

I have spent much of today listenng to the radio/watchng TV/reading news reports etc etc and it appears that as each hour passes the commentators in our media become more and more rabidly right wing in there assesment of what has happened and what should be done. Its a sad state of affairs when intelligent people are trying to outdo each other in stating there disgust and condemnation of events. Hardly anyone has attempted to explain any reasons behind whats occuring, its just an endless diatribe about thugs and mindless violence.

What i personally find scary is that this country is lurching to the far right and that people appear comfortable with there liberties being eroded.

Exactly.

Good post mate

 

[Cheesy]

I have spent much of today listenng to the radio/watchng TV/reading news reports etc etc and it appears that as each hour passes the commentators in our media become more and more rabidly right wing in there assesment of what has happened and what should be done. Its a sad state of affairs when intelligent people are trying to outdo each other in stating there disgust and condemnation of events. Hardly anyone has attempted to explain any reasons behind whats occuring, its just an endless diatribe about thugs and mindless violence.

What i personally find scary is that this country is lurching to the far right and that people appear comfortable with there liberties being eroded.

Exactly.

Good post mate

Are you seriousy trying to deny that these people who are involved aren't thugs using mindless violence?

Perhaps they just need some attention the poor little darlings.

 

[shackattack]

whilst the media coverage is necessary, it appears to glamourise and promote what is large scale robbery. these thugs are hearing that the police cannot cope and are thriving on this as they loot and pillage. less media coverage may not prevent some of it in london, but would surely prevent most of the copycat riots around the country.

 

[keemcfc]

I tried that last night but I might as well have been holidaying in Italy.

I don't think people are actually capable of seeing past "kids on the rob".

They are perfectly capable but in this instance, they do no need to.

When both myself and JMA agree on something, along with tuertsboots and Lancet Fluke, then you know a consensus is forming.

Is really is all about kids on the rob. Look at twitter, see the messages people are posting about the riots, trying to goad friends to come on with them on the rob, trying to focus on the more valuable stores and jewellers. This is not about a poor upbringing, it is shameless opportunism and you can't tell me the kids as young as 8-13 that have been arrested have any idea about cuts or such like.

You myopic anti-stablishment view is triesome which is a shame as I really like you as a poster.

The thing is though, there are far too many of these kids who see no problem with going out looting. If these people had some moral compass instilled into them, some sense of belonging to a community or even just jobs to keep them occupied then even if the opportunity to riot was there, then they wouldn't. If rioting happened in Manchester, I wouldn't think about going to join in.

So what I'm saying is, the fact that nationwide there is this mass opportunistic sentiment suggests that something has gone seriously wrong with their backgrounds. It's possible to both condem the violence and analyse its causes without just saying, 'yeah they're all just greedy end of'. The question is why do they feel it is acceptable to be greedy and go out and loot? That's what has to be analysed and that necessarily comes down to their upbringing and their socio-economic prospects.

They just need to get harshly punished at an earlyish age for doing wrong, like the 60's/70's generations...

Yeah a load of them were druggies, but it was nowhere near as violent and ignorant as this... And when it was, they at least had some form of reason...

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

As you were typing JMA, I made another post in response to another poster which I felt addressed your view.

They are being driven by reckless opportunism and greed.

I guess that makes them equal to the engineers of their plight: the greedy, recklessly opportunist bankers who thrive when politics stays clear of economics.

Until the economy recognises moral desert, you will hear of the poor kids rioting, the avaricious Capitalists bringing down countries, the burglars getting stabbing to death in Salford. These will not go away.

All I'm suggesting is that we look at the root of the problem instead of losing our minds and wanting our brothers and sisters shot, burned, stabbed and hanged by the Establishment.

As I said, I feel this is a product of politics. I ask myself why we have a culture that is so fucking greedy and I can only return to the foibles of Capitalism.

I would agree that it is the product of politics. But it is the product of numerous political decisions over decades that have contributed to the rise of a culture that too often celebrates ignorance and violence (typing that I know I sound somewhat like people I can't stand, but I think in this case it's legit).

And it isn't the product of politics that aren;t similarly in place in every other Capitalist country. So, how many people in that crowd do you think have a genuine idealogical problem with capitalism as a way of life? Very few, I suspect.

It isn't a single issue. It isn't easily addressed. It isn't a product of contemporary economic issues.

We have to be really careful here. Where do you stop when you seek to constantly explore, dissect and try to solve the reasons for criminality. God knows, I've done enough of it in the past. At what point do you disagree with an action, treat it as purely a criminal act and separate it from political issues. There must be some point because you can go as far as you want down that road. I could link political issues that allow a society to develop a Harold Shipman or a Fred West, but no-one views them in the light of political events, current and past.

But I won't excuse to any extent pure, wanton destruction that exhibits nothing but a desire to indulge in criminality for criminality's sake.

I would be the first to look for political solutions to improve society and address inequality. And I'll continue to do so when this dies down and can be dissected properly. Only a moron (or Mail reader) would not do so. But by linking the events of last night with immediate and contemporary political issues it gives them far too much legitimacy. Legitimacy that they don't deserve.

It seems a strange thing to say that they don't deserve the 'respect' afforded to rioters in the instances mentioned in the past - riots which I might have understood to varying extents and whose cause I may have supported, despite them undoubtedly also containing some vary unsavoury people. But this is nothing as noble (if there can be a noble riot).

Can you honestly say that you think people last night had a sense of 'justice' in their action, even a misguided one? I don't buy it. To my knowledge, genuinely motivated crowds riot in a totally different way. Sure, some involved will do some of the shite involved last night. But for that to be the sole aim of a riot. Nah, I don't buy it.

 

[Anonymous]

The notion that our country is lurching towards the far right is a joke - if anything, what we've seen is a pathetic weak liberal response to a situation which needed strong, firm, direct, action against the scum who are stealing, destroying, and violating peoples lives and homes...because...well as that stupid inbred woman in the radio interview a few pages back says..."it's a laugh".

 

[rickmcfc]

I have spent much of today listenng to the radio/watchng TV/reading news reports etc etc and it appears that as each hour passes the commentators in our media become more and more rabidly right wing in there assesment of what has happened and what should be done. Its a sad state of affairs when intelligent people are trying to outdo each other in stating there disgust and condemnation of events. Hardly anyone has attempted to explain any reasons behind whats occuring, its just an endless diatribe about thugs and mindless violence.

What i personally find scary is that this country is lurching to the far right and that people appear comfortable with there liberties being eroded.

Exactly.

Good post mate

Yes because the Left wing approach has worked really well hasn't it?

 

[bluevengence]

Exactly.

Good post mate

Are you seriousy trying to deny that these people who are involved aren't thugs using mindless violence?

Perhaps they just need some attention the poor little darlings.

what the poster is getting at is how civil libertys
can easily be eroded by knee-jerk rabid right wing reaction

but if you would be happy in a police state...hey-ho

 

[SilvaLining]

Exactly.

Good post mate

Yes because the Left wing approach has worked really well hasn't it?

You go far enough to the left or to the right they essentially become the same thing

 

[SWP's back]

You've gone quiet Blue Tooth? Busy writing a retraction of my impeding libel case from the dead drug dealer?

I'd nipped out actually...last line of my last post was a clue. "I'm done"
I didn't like the tone of your comment. Thought it was distatseful to tar a whole group with one brush like that.
I stand corrected on the libel comment.
You obviously know a great deal more about that than I do.

At the end of the day my gripe is with the handling as I said...dealer or not his family really should have been informed by the force that he had been shot. They found out through the press.Not good.
We obviously differ on our views around this.
C'est La Vie.

Fair enough. I was simply making the point that the mournful protest complaining about his death probably didn't give as much of a shit about the lives his affected badly with his gang and crack dealing.