Rishi Sunak

[Brewster's millions]

another lump of red meat for the base who have ill conceived understanding of what a student does and how they benefit from a degree - its not a loan its a student tax - a levy on education. Its easy to understand when you realise they have not been able to define what a rip off degree is nor what a good job is. Its mostly about making higher education available only to the better off

In principle it’s a good idea and, if done correctly, it would actually allow for better funding of lower income students.

If universities are making money by offering courses with horrendous future employment prospects, and which do very little to address the economy’s skills shortages, then why should taxpayers ultimately end up footing the bill?

 

[bluethrunthru]

In principle it’s a good idea and, if done correctly, it would actually allow for better funding of lower income students.

If universities are making money by offering courses with horrendous future employment prospects, and which do very little to address the economy’s skills shortages, then why should taxpayers ultimately end up footing the bill?

Still doesn't define its actual targets - because its just hot air.

Also - can you confirm where there is a massive number of high paying high skilled jobs are for these mathematicians - science graduates and biologists ? All we read about is visa's for lorry drivers, butchers, bakers, brickies, plasterers and roofers none of which traditionally recruit from Humanities or History graduates.

Would have been better spending their time concentrating on reviving the movement deals which were offered by the EU and declined by the Govt to allow musicians and artists to tour given that the arts contributed £100bn + to the UK

On 8 December 2022, the House of Lords is due to consider the following:

Viscount Chandos (Labour) to move that this House takes note of the case for a strategy towards the arts and creative industries considering the UK’s world leading position and benefits to the economy and levelling up

1. Contribution of creative industries to the UK economy: facts and figures​

1.1 Economic output​

Recent data from the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) shows that:

• The creative industries sector contributed £109bn to the UK economy in 2021. This is equivalent to 5.6% of the UK economy that year. The largest subsector within the creative industries was IT, software and computer services, which accounted for 2.3% of the UK economy in 2021. (These figures are based on monthly estimates for gross value added (GVA).)
• While the economic output of the creative industries fell during the Covid-19 pandemic, it was less adversely affected than the UK economy as a whole. Monthly GVA in the creative industries fell by 6.6% between January 2020 and January 2021, compared with the 11% decline for the UK economy as a whole. However, certain subsectors within the creative industries were more adversely affected. For example, over the same period, the monthly GVA for museums, galleries and libraries fell by 37%. Indeed, during the pandemic visitor numbers for DCMS-sponsored museums fell from 50 million visitors in 2019 to 11.5 million in 2020. Music, performing arts and the visual arts also saw a decline in economic output, with its GVA falling by 35%.
• Growth in both the creative industries sector and the economy as a whole declined in September 2022 compared with the previous month.
• However, overall, the creative industries sector grew by 6.9% in September 2022 compared with the same month in 2021. Growth across the UK economy as a whole was 1.2% over the same period. Indeed, as demonstrated by the graph below, growth in the creative industries has been higher than across the whole of the economy since the outbreak of the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

In principle it’s a good idea and, if done correctly, it would actually allow for better funding of lower income students.

If universities are making money by offering courses with horrendous future employment prospects, and which do very little to address the economy’s skills shortages, then why should taxpayers ultimately end up footing the bill?

But the Tory principle won’t work like that, it will be more to do with keeping more of the public away from education rather than bringing better education in.

We all know that further education is not about the actual subject, it‘s about understanding how to apply analysis and critical thinking to a subject as many don’t actually go into the field that their degree is based in.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Still doesn't define its actual targets - because its just hot air.

Also - can you confirm where there is a massive number of high paying high skilled jobs are for these mathematicians - science graduates and biologists ? All we read about is visa's for lorry drivers, butchers, bakers, brickies, plasterers and roofers none of which traditionally recruit from Humanities or History graduates.

Would have been better spending their time concentrating on reviving the movement deals which were offered by the EU and declined by the Govt to allow musicians and artists to tour given that the arts contributed £100bn + to the UK

On 8 December 2022, the House of Lords is due to consider the following:

1. Contribution of creative industries to the UK economy: facts and figures​

1.1 Economic output​

Recent data from the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) shows that:

• The creative industries sector contributed £109bn to the UK economy in 2021. This is equivalent to 5.6% of the UK economy that year. The largest subsector within the creative industries was IT, software and computer services, which accounted for 2.3% of the UK economy in 2021. (These figures are based on monthly estimates for gross value added (GVA).)
• While the economic output of the creative industries fell during the Covid-19 pandemic, it was less adversely affected than the UK economy as a whole. Monthly GVA in the creative industries fell by 6.6% between January 2020 and January 2021, compared with the 11% decline for the UK economy as a whole. However, certain subsectors within the creative industries were more adversely affected. For example, over the same period, the monthly GVA for museums, galleries and libraries fell by 37%. Indeed, during the pandemic visitor numbers for DCMS-sponsored museums fell from 50 million visitors in 2019 to 11.5 million in 2020. Music, performing arts and the visual arts also saw a decline in economic output, with its GVA falling by 35%.
• Growth in both the creative industries sector and the economy as a whole declined in September 2022 compared with the previous month.
• However, overall, the creative industries sector grew by 6.9% in September 2022 compared with the same month in 2021. Growth across the UK economy as a whole was 1.2% over the same period. Indeed, as demonstrated by the graph below, growth in the creative industries has been higher than across the whole of the economy since the outbreak of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Your comment doesn’t really make much sense. Incoherent, actually.

Firstly, with regard to who is going to employ mathematicians and so on, the proposed reforms explicitly cover this issue, as future employment rates will be considered when grading the different degree courses. So this point is already covered.

Also, I’m unsure of the relevance of the stuff you posted about creative industries. Are you implicitly assuming that the poor quality degrees are all in relation to creative industries? Seems quite an assumption, but again it’s very unclear what you mean here.

The bottom line is that poor quality, low value degrees are costing taxations millions of pounds, and diverting funds from areas where expenditure is more urgently required.

 

[joe123]

Your comment doesn’t really make much sense. Incoherent, actually.

Firstly, with regard to who is going to employ mathematicians and so on, the proposed reforms explicitly cover this issue, as future employment rates will be considered when grading the different degree courses. So this point is already covered.

Also, I’m unsure of the relevance of the stuff you posted about creative industries. Are you implicitly assuming that the poor quality degrees are all in relation to creative industries? Seems quite an assumption, but again it’s very unclear what you mean here.

The bottom line is that poor quality, low value degrees are costing taxations millions of pounds, and diverting funds from areas where expenditure is more urgently required.

Can you name a poor quality, low value degree?

 

[Brewster's millions]

But the Tory principle won’t work like that, it will be more to do with keeping more of the public away from education rather than bringing better education in.

We all know that further education is not about the actual subject, it‘s about understanding how to apply analysis and critical thinking to a subject as many don’t actually go into the field that their degree is based in.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that students necessarily have to go into the field that their degree was based in, just that the various degrees have to result in graduates finding appropriate jobs. Classifying what are ‘graduate jobs’ obviously isn’t easy, but that doesn’t mean that the issue shouldn’t be addressed, and that the current indirect government funding of poor degree courses shouldn’t be challenged.

The key point here is that the way student loans are classified in terms of government borrowing has changed in recent years.

In broad terms, when tuition fees we’re first introduced, student loans only increased government borrowing if the loans were not repaid by the end of their duration. So it was only something to worry about it 30-40 years’ time. Now, when student loans are issued, the proportion of these loans that are likely to default is immediately classified as government expenditure. So value for money naturally becomes a bigger issue.

Is that right that universities should continue to offer low quality, poor outcome degrees and effectively force the government to pay for a large proportion of the tuition fees, when there are so many pressures on the public finances? Personally I think Sunak is absolutely right to tackle the issue.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Can you name a poor quality, low value degree?

One which fails to satisfy certain criteria in relation to future earnings and employment outcomes. Doesn’t really matter what the degree subject is.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Your comment doesn’t really make much sense. Incoherent, actually.

Firstly, with regard to who is going to employ mathematicians and so on, the proposed reforms explicitly cover this issue, as future employment rates will be considered when grading the different degree courses. So this point is already covered.

Also, I’m unsure of the relevance of the stuff you posted about creative industries. Are you implicitly assuming that the poor quality degrees are all in relation to creative industries? Seems quite an assumption, but again it’s very unclear what you mean here.

The bottom line is that poor quality, low value degrees are costing taxations millions of pounds, and diverting funds from areas where expenditure is more urgently required.

Name a poor quality degree then

 

[Eccles Blue]

Oh my goodness Rishi Sunak has found his way to the House of Commons!! Do you think he’s feeling well?
Mind you they’ll soon be finishing for the Summer Break so I suppose he thought he’d remind the Tory MPs know what he looks like!!

 

[Brewster's millions]

Name a poor quality degree then

I’ve already answered that. Depends on the outcome, rather than the subject.