Roberto Mancini's Champions league: STATS

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Well if we had last year’s group again I think we would of pissed it, it’s hard to tell because we are in the group of death and probably the hardest group ever in champions league

What on earth have you seen in the first three matches this season to suggest we would now piss a group with Bayern and Napoli? I can cope with not qualifying, it's a seriously tough group, but imo there is little doubt we have gone backwards this year in the CL and we haven't even made a fist of it so far.

We went to up in Madrid for fuck sake, we must defend far better in the champions league. If you don’t think we are moving in the right direction fine no problem that’s your opinion.

To be fair mate with that group we are in we was always fucked from day one

We are definately not moving in the right direction in Europe. If we had been beaten by 2 or 3 in both Madrid and v Dortmund we could not have complained

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Ferguson won it twice in 26 years with the help of the rigged draws.

Really?

Here's a list of the teams they had to play on the way to both of those successes.....

1998/99
Group Stage - Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Brondby
QF - Inter Milan
SF - Juventus
Final - Bayern Munich

2007/08
Group Stage - Roma, Sporting Lisbon, Dinamo Kiev
2nd - Lyon
QF - Roma
SF - Barcelona
Final - Chelsea

You'd have thought these 'rigged' draws would have given them easier routes than that, particularly the 98/99 one, wouldn't you?

So, whilst the groups tend to be a little easier for teams that have succeeded in the past nowadays, back then, groups were equally hard on some draws and certainly in these cases, 'rigged draws' as you put it don't appear to be evident here.

But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a some good ol' shite-spouting.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Well if we had last year’s group again I think we would of pissed it, it’s hard to tell because we are in the group of death and probably the hardest group ever in champions league

What on earth have you seen in the first three matches this season to suggest we would now piss a group with Bayern and Napoli? I can cope with not qualifying, it's a seriously tough group, but imo there is little doubt we have gone backwards this year in the CL and we haven't even made a fist of it so far.

We went to up in Madrid for fuck sake, we must defend far better in the champions league. If you don’t think we are moving in the right direction fine no problem that’s your opinion.

To be fair mate with that group we are in we was always fucked from day one

Why are you only highlighting losing away in Madrid and not the fact that we got absolutely battered at home to Dortmund (despite sneaking a point) and easily beaten by the supposed whipping boys of the group? I'll ask again, what did you see when we were played off the park by Madrid, Dortmund and to an extent Ajax that makes you think we would have "pissed" a group with bayern and Napoli this season? I know the group is very very difficult, I was gutted when the draw was made, unlike many of the loonies who thought it was a great draw, but to say we were fucked the day the draw was made is fucking shite. you may not think so, but I think we have the quality of squad to be able to at least mix it with the likes of Madrid and Dortmund and certainly Ajax. You will never convince me that we shouldn't at least have been competitive in this group and so far we have been a million miles away from competitive.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

What on earth have you seen in the first three matches this season to suggest we would now piss a group with Bayern and Napoli? I can cope with not qualifying, it's a seriously tough group, but imo there is little doubt we have gone backwards this year in the CL and we haven't even made a fist of it so far.

We went to up in Madrid for fuck sake, we must defend far better in the champions league. If you don’t think we are moving in the right direction fine no problem that’s your opinion.

To be fair mate with that group we are in we was always fucked from day one

Why are you only highlighting losing away in Madrid and not the fact that we got absolutely battered at home to Dortmund (despite sneaking a point) and easily beaten by the supposed whipping boys of the group? I'll ask again, what did you see when we were played off the park by Madrid, Dortmund and to an extent Ajax that makes you think we would have "pissed" a group with bayern and Napoli this season? I know the group is very very difficult, I was gutted when the draw was made, unlike many of the loonies who thought it was a great draw, but to say we were fucked the day the draw was made is fucking shite. you may not think so, but I think we have the quality of squad to be able to at least mix it with the likes of Madrid and Dortmund and certainly Ajax. You will never convince me that we shouldn't at least have been competitive in this group and so far we have been a million miles away from competitive.

I agree with you there. Despite Dortmund beating Madrid last night, I would still put Real Madrid & Barca on the top pedestal, and then you & Dortmund a level below, despite Dortmund impressing at the Etihad a few weeks ago. You should definitely be beating Ajax, both home AND away. Before this group kicked off, I think you'd have been looking for 6pts off Ajax and 3pts at home to Dortmund. Then, perhaps a draw at most away to Dortmund with anything from Madrid a bonus. I know 10pts wasn't enough last season but this season I think it would have been.

 

[sergiokun]

What on earth have you seen in the first three matches this season to suggest we would now piss a group with Bayern and Napoli? I can cope with not qualifying, it's a seriously tough group, but imo there is little doubt we have gone backwards this year in the CL and we haven't even made a fist of it so far.

We went to up in Madrid for fuck sake, we must defend far better in the champions league. If you don’t think we are moving in the right direction fine no problem that’s your opinion.

To be fair mate with that group we are in we was always fucked from day one

Why are you only highlighting losing away in Madrid and not the fact that we got absolutely battered at home to Dortmund (despite sneaking a point) and easily beaten by the supposed whipping boys of the group? I'll ask again, what did you see when we were played off the park by Madrid, Dortmund and to an extent Ajax that makes you think we would have "pissed" a group with bayern and Napoli this season? I know the group is very very difficult, I was gutted when the draw was made, unlike many of the loonies who thought it was a great draw, but to say we were fucked the day the draw was made is fucking shite. you may not think so, but I think we have the quality of squad to be able to at least mix it with the likes of Madrid and Dortmund and certainly Ajax. You will never convince me that we shouldn't at least have been competitive in this group and so far we have been a million miles away from competitive.

We don’t have enough experience in champions league mate that’s why I knew we was fucked once I seen the draw! Yes fair enough we have been smashed by Dortmund and Madrid but they are clearly better in Europe. On paper we should be mixing with the like of Dortmund and Madrid but football is not played on paper

Like I have said before we wasn’t good enough for top 4 in the premier 3 years ago and look at us now, even if you don’t think we are moving in the right direction but at least we are learning. If you want to succeed in champions league once we take the lead you don’t lose it!! sadly we have chucked 2 leads away

 

[Lancet Fluke]

We went to up in Madrid for fuck sake, we must defend far better in the champions league. If you don’t think we are moving in the right direction fine no problem that’s your opinion.

To be fair mate with that group we are in we was always fucked from day one

Why are you only highlighting losing away in Madrid and not the fact that we got absolutely battered at home to Dortmund (despite sneaking a point) and easily beaten by the supposed whipping boys of the group? I'll ask again, what did you see when we were played off the park by Madrid, Dortmund and to an extent Ajax that makes you think we would have "pissed" a group with bayern and Napoli this season? I know the group is very very difficult, I was gutted when the draw was made, unlike many of the loonies who thought it was a great draw, but to say we were fucked the day the draw was made is fucking shite. you may not think so, but I think we have the quality of squad to be able to at least mix it with the likes of Madrid and Dortmund and certainly Ajax. You will never convince me that we shouldn't at least have been competitive in this group and so far we have been a million miles away from competitive.

We don’t have enough experience in champions league mate that’s why I knew we was fucked once I seen the draw! Yes fair enough we have been smashed by Dortmund and Madrid but they are clearly better in Europe. On paper we should be mixing with the like of Dortmund and Madrid but football is not played on paper

Like I have said before we wasn’t good enough for top 4 in the premier 3 years ago and look at us now, even if you don’t think we are moving in the right direction but at least we are learning. If you want to succeed in champions league once we take the lead you don’t lose it!! sadly we have chucked 2 leads away

What are the signs that we are learning anything? From what I can see we haven't learnt from any of our mistakes.

 

[york away to this!]

More worrying that the stats for me are the level of performances in Europe

Dynamo Kiev away....awful, and effin freezing
Dynamo Kiev home....not very good
Napoli home.............not very good
Bayern away............poor (except 1st 20 mins)
Viallreal home...........not very good, damn lucky to win in last minute
Villareal away...........very good
Napoli away.............not very good
Bayern Munich home..OK but it was versus their reserves if were honest
Porto away..............good
Porto home..............very good
Sporting Lisbon away.awful
Sporting Lisbon home.awful (except the last 10 mins)
Read Madrid away.....poor (2-1 lead flattered us)
Dortmund home........awful
Ajax away...............awful

Doesnt make great reading and I certainly wont be buying a DVD of our recent European adventures.
The only decent European night weve had of late has been Salzburg home, and half of that joy was provided by Alan.

...this is all well and good but I expect to see hard facts in a tabulated or venn diagram form before they can be used in this forum with any certainty...

 

[Anonymous]

More worrying that the stats for me are the level of performances in Europe

Dynamo Kiev away....awful, and effin freezing
Dynamo Kiev home....not very good
Napoli home.............not very good
Bayern away............poor (except 1st 20 mins)
Viallreal home...........not very good, damn lucky to win in last minute
Villareal away...........very good
Napoli away.............not very good
Bayern Munich home..OK but it was versus their reserves if were honest
Porto away..............good
Porto home..............very good
Sporting Lisbon away.awful
Sporting Lisbon home.awful (except the last 10 mins)
Read Madrid away.....poor (2-1 lead flattered us)
Dortmund home........awful
Ajax away...............awful

Doesnt make great reading and I certainly wont be buying a DVD of our recent European adventures.
The only decent European night weve had of late has been Salzburg home, and half of that joy was provided by Alan.

The most damning thing about that is if you look at the teams we've played, with the exception of Bayern and Madrid, our squad, team, pedigree, everything is light years ahead of those other clubs. Yet our record is shitty and seemingly not improving.

The question for me is what do the owners think. If they're happy to forgo Europe for continued domestic success so be it - but with the big money available in the CL knock out stages I wonder how long being poor in Europe will be acceptable for.

 

[John.des]

Anyone who says we are improving is blind.

"We will improve".
"Mancini will get it right."

It is not the first time when Mancini played CL. He had 4 years at Inter of it. He only lasted this much because he was winning the league. You can imagine they fire him earlier if he doesnt keep winning the title at least.
(He was lucky because his biggest rival in those years in Serie A was Spaletti's AS Roma, the one United beat 7-1 at Old Trafford around 2008).

He didnt improve after his first year at Inter, he didnt improve after his second, or third year. Then he came to City, had a run in the EL but didnt learn from his Inter mistakes and Dinamo Kijev didnt need a 200-300-400 m squad to make it matter.

Then with all the experience, past mistakes Mancini knew exactly what he has to do in a Bayern, Napoli, Villarreal group to advance, but he failed to do it.

Then Sporting in the EL. He had a lot of experience from knock-out rounds at Inter. But Sporting knew what they have to play, and rhey did it. After that maybe they lost to some weaker team they didnt reach the semis. (Just like Dinamo Kijev didnt reach the semis after they beat us. They was nowhere near to be the best teams in the EL.)

And then know this year, with all the past experience we show the signs of huge weakness, we are getting dominated every match, scared back to backpasses and hoofing.

Mancini is improving in Europe? What makes you say that? Clearly not the facts.

 

[Tevez City]

How much did Ajax and Dortmund spent to build their teams ?

Mancini wasted +50 Million this summer, I know he couldn't get his first targets ( RVP,Hazard, De Rossi or Martinez) but this is not good enough excuse. There are many alternatives who could improve the team instead of what he bought.