Perhaps he isn't good as he thinks he is and the players you have mentioned still have had more game time at the same age and showed that they have worth.
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Rony Lopes
- Thread starter BlueDejong
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Perhaps he isn't good as he thinks he is and the players you have mentioned still have had more game time at the same age and showed that they have worth.
Neville Kneville
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So there just a bunch of chancers who happened to be in the right queue when the interviews were happening?
There is not one person in football, who can judge accurately whether the best kids will make it or not just on the amount of information we have from Lopes. If such a person existed, they would be on ten times the wages of Jose Mourinho.
Think about it. they could just go round hoover up all the best 20 year olds & sign them, then sell for 80 mil each.
They don't know.
For every Bale, Ronaldo, Pogba, etc... there are way more teenage prospects that never make it.He isn't good enough for our first team.
Neither was gareth Bale or Ronaldo at the same stage, or Pogba. So ?
Clearly the scouts, coaches, etc.. at MCFC didn't see Lopes as a part of their future and once it became clear he wasn't going to sign, they sold him to Monaco. If Lopes becomes a top flight player or even a first team player on a second tier team then great but there is a higher bust potential, especially when it comes to teenagers, than a rate of success.
Matty
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You will almost certainly be completely wrong on this. Vieira is not stupid & would not write off Rony Lopes at this stage. It's a fuckup.
As we don't have the behind the scenes information all we can do is trust the judgement of those picked by City to work as youth coaches and judge City's youth. Your assessment that Vieira wouldn't write Lopes off at this stage is the definition of "guesswork" which is what you've accused City's youth coaches of doing with Lopes, at least there's comes from first hand assessments.
Neville Kneville
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Sorry mate and nothing personal but when you claim our coaching staff are not able to conclude whether a guy is good or not, you lost any credibility in your argument
I know for sure they aren't for the reasons I've just given. Such a judge would be worth more than the club, in transfer fee profit.
Think about it.
George Hannah
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In Deutschland if they've not shown first team form by 20 they are dispatched.There is not one person in football, who can judge accurately whether the best kids will make it or not just on the amount of information we have from Lopes. If such a person existed, they would be on ten times the wages of Jose Mourinho.
Think about it. they could just go round hoover up all the best 20 year olds & sign them, then sell for 80 mil each.
They don't know.
FantasyIreland
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I was lucky enough to work at the reserve games for a few years,started early 2000's - unfortunately it was the only perk of a previous career!fair enough mate, i get the points you made. i used know chris chantlers brother, so kinda got more into it when i met him and the youth final we reached a few years back . what got you hooked on youth games ?
Neville Kneville
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As we don't have the behind the scenes information all we can do is trust the judgement of those picked by City to work as youth coaches and judge City's youth. Your assessment that Vieira wouldn't write Lopes off at this stage is the definition of "guesswork" which is what you've accused City's youth coaches of doing with Lopes, at least there's comes from first hand assessments.
Yep, I'm not having it that they are sure Lopes won't make it. Not at all.
No one's right 100% of the time, that much is obvious. It's an inexact science but the scouts, coaches, front office staff have way better tools, knowledge, experience, etc.. to come up with personnel decisions relative to normal folks who just talk football online.There is not one person in football, who can judge accurately whether the best kids will make it or not just on the amount of information we have from Lopes. If such a person existed, they would be on ten times the wages of Jose Mourinho.
Think about it. they could just go round hoover up all the best 20 year olds & sign them, then sell for 80 mil each.
They don't know.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
In Deutschland if they've not shown first team form by 20 they are dispatched.
And how do they 'show' first team form ?
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
No one's right 100% of the time, that much is obvious. It's an inexact science but the scouts, coaches, front office staff have way better tools, knowledge, experience, etc.. to come up with personnel decisions relative to normal folks who just talk football online.
Dead right. And because of that, it's a brave or stupid coach who writes off a player like Rony Lopes at 19.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
Their coach just signs a form.And how do they 'show' first team form ?
Matty
Well-Known Member
Just seen Pellegrini's gaff in the press conference, absolutely piss poor that.
I've absolutely no idea how anyone can say our youth products are in safe hands with Manuel when he doesn't even know if we'd loaned out or permanently sold one of our biggest prospects.
Embarrassing.
Goes without saying that everything's going swimmingly from the perspective of the senior squad, but this issue with academy graduates getting a shout isn't going away, certainly in the short term at least.
Think Denayer's been handled poorly as well, and is now having to rush through a pretty poor loan move, IMO, to Galatasaray before deadline day.
He'll get some minutes in the group stage of the CL, but what's he going to learn playing in Turkey, really?
This whole topic is a real issue for me, bit of a concern.
Yes, it was a little bit embarrassing, however Pellegrini won't have a great deal to do with our youth prospects. He'll be being informed by those who work with them on a daily basis.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Yes, it was a little bit embarrassing, however Pellegrini won't have a great deal to do with our youth prospects. He'll be being informed by those who work with them on a daily basis.
He has had Lopes training with the first team for about two months, of course he 'has something to do' with him! They announced at City live that Lopes was a first team player.
BlueDeadHead
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For me, and I said it last year before all this happened, we should never have loaned him out to Lille. He'd shown more than enough in his few chances with the first team to hang around the squad for last season (as he was a free squad pick anyway). He should and probably would have gotten to play a part in 10-15 games (mainly as a sub) and we would have gotten the chance to see whether he was fitting in and making the grade. It also would have given him the belief that we actually had some interest in giving him a chance and he would almost certainly have seen a future for himself at the club and signed a new deal. Instead we took the easy way out and just dumped him out on loan and delayed giving him a chance for another year.
Just seen Pellegrini's gaff in the press conference, absolutely piss poor that.
I've absolutely no idea how anyone can say our youth products are in safe hands with Manuel when he doesn't even know if we'd loaned out or permanently sold one of our biggest prospects.
Embarrassing.
Goes without saying that everything's going swimmingly from the perspective of the senior squad, but this issue with academy graduates getting a shout isn't going away, certainly in the short term at least.
Think Denayer's been handled poorly as well, and is now having to rush through a pretty poor loan move, IMO, to Galatasaray before deadline day.
He'll get some minutes in the group stage of the CL, but what's he going to learn playing in Turkey, really?
This whole topic is a real issue for me, bit of a concern.
Its simple. If they are good enough they will break through and play in the first team. Look at Sterling 20 years old is he? hes good enough and he starts for us. Our standards are the highest now.
Matty
Well-Known Member
Yep, I'm not having it that they are sure Lopes won't make it. Not at all.
I'm sure that they are as sure as they can be. Plus you're also ignoring the contract situation, and Lopes' wishes for an amount of first team football we didn't believe he was ready for. If he'd have been willing to "do a Denayer", sign a lengthy contract and take his chances then Lopes would have been resigned I shouldn't wonder, if rumours are true he wanted some form of guarantees he'd get significant game time before he signed a new deal. What exactly were City to do? Give him the guarantees and then renege? Play him when they felt he wasn't ready?
FantasyIreland
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Personally,i wouldn't have minded option 4,in fact,i'd have encouraged it.For those that are upset. Particularly @Damocles. What would you have done to keep him? Serious question. Only way we keep him is do one of the following:
Not buy Sterling
Not buy KDB
Sell Navas
Sell Nasri
Which one of the above would you have done to keep Lopes?
RichardDunneOwnGoal
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Yes, it was a little bit embarrassing, however Pellegrini won't have a great deal to do with our youth prospects. He'll be being informed by those who work with them on a daily basis.
Come off it mate, of course he will. If he doesn't then that's clearly a glaring issue, and adds to the impression the Pellegrini isn't interested in the younger players trying to break through.
Lopes wasn't some obscure kid from the academy, he was one of our brightest young players who'd had a year of senior football in France under his belt. He was one of the lads who was supposed to have been promoted to our senior squad this summer, he's been training with Manuel all summer and was part of his senior squad in preseason, he should be fully in tune with what the lad's future holds. But clearly, he didn't have a clue.
That, quite frankly, is fucking staggering.
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