Russian invasion of Ukraine

[city2]

NATO has to get involved and stop this murderous madman, these poor people have got fuck all and will probably never want to go back home, it’s time for action to stop this now.

 

[SWP's back]

There was a fair bit of faux outrage on here when the uae were due to meet in Moscow, unsurprisingly it didn’t happen. however it appears Iran’s foreign minister is going to Moscow tomorrow. I wonder it standard chartered do a recommend a friend scheme for laundering and sanction by pass services.

Yeah… about that….

 

[KS55]

Reparations can be easily built into lifting sanctions and that will make it affordable.

They will definitely be part of any agreement, the rest of the world isn’t going to pay the estimated $1T cost to infrastructure.

"easily built"......study the history of Europe 1918 to 1939 and you will might replace that phrase "stupidly built". Bitter experience taught the allies in 1945 to replace war reparations with the Marshall plan. Demanding reparations simply invites the next invasion. Russia would be poor for two generations and they would see that as humiliation.

 

[KS55]

Germany and in particular Merkel are going to come out of this severely tainted. Might prompt a complete change in attitudes.

I think the announcement of huge increases in their defence spending shows that at least the Chancellor has dramatically changed Germany's stance, but the gasps that greeted his announcement in parliament showed that many still did not get it. Ostpolitik, the legacy of Willy Brandt, has failed.

 

[KS55]

It was the right tank at the right time it's reliability stacks up well when compared to the Leopard 2 and certainly the Abrams. It's being upgraded to challenger 3 level but it's taking to long due to our lack of industrial expertise now.

USA has supported silicone valley with regular contracts for tech companies to develop stuff. I've often thought that we should do similar. Perhaps military hardware would benefit from that type of approach, in not just tech but manufacturing. Too fanciful? Mercedes F1 car is British designed and built, but paid for by that German company.

 

[KS55]

Maybe see what that did to Germany after WWI?

Ukraine needs a European Marshall Plan, with the promise of moving on to assisting a DEMOCRATIC Russia once Putin has gone.

Too often, anger and revenge brings out the stick, as opposed to the carrot.

Were this a popular Russian action, one might feel animosity towards the entire country, but it may well be the Russian Everyman that helps end this war.

Having caught up with this thread now, i am surprised at how many posters think Russia should pay, ignoring post WW1 history. Your ref to the Marshall plan is spot on. Humiliation and impoverishment would just bring resentment and the next incursion.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

In 1914, the UK promised to protect Belgium and WW1 began

In 1939 the UK promised to protect Poland and WW2 began

In 2022 the UK promises to protect Ukraine and.....well

Let's hope not.

How many Ukrainians are “we” willing to sacrifice on Putin’s altar before ”we” realize extermination of the Ukrainian people is an untenable situation in Putin’s desire to control the largest land mass in Europe?

 

[KS55]

I thought John Simpson BBC article on this was a disgrace.

They aren't "Tricky" they are non-negotiable, and the entire tone of the article was Ukraine will be happy to give up 1/3 of its land and leave millions of its citizens under a despotic reign just to stop the war.

Zelensky and the Ukrainian government have been really clear over and over that they aren't giving up their land to Russia.

The BBC article also said that Eastern Ukraine had broken away and "stressed their Russianness" which is the kind of thing you don't hear outside of Moscow. They didn't break away, Moscow based paramilitary groups went in and started a civil war. They didn't "stress their Russianness", the Russian separatists conducted phony polls and referendums like the one they tried to do in Kherson last week.

100% Putin propaganda repeated as fact by the BBC's chief correspondent, it's an absolute disgrace to journalism.

The only voice I have heard from a Russian speaker in the east said:
"They (the Russians) say it is for our protection. Protection from what?"

 

[KS55]

Putin had a ridiculously powerful job for life, but he made the fatal mistake of believing his own publicity.

Thinking he knew all the answers. He’s royally fucked up. Daft ****. He’s absolutely fucking blown it.

You tell him gdm.

 

[bluemoon32]

Sorry if already posted