Russian invasion of Ukraine

Blue Maverick said:
Good news that but also bad, because Putin will start to get nasty if this carries on, chemical and biological if he sees it as the only way to end this quickly whilst he still can.
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Hence the ‘perhaps’ in my post.

Agreed that Putin is likely to resort to ever more desperate measures as his conventional forces struggle.

We can only hope that those around him understand the futility of their situation and remove him from power.
 
west didsblue said:
The operating costs of NATO are something like £2bn in total which is a tiny fraction of each members defence budget. The 2% of GDP that is often mentioned is not given to NATO. It’s the the minimum that is supposed to be spent by each nation on its own defence so that whenever NATO needs to front an operation, each member can make an appropriate contribution.
An EU force would consist of EU members putting a proportion of their own forces under a centralised EU command, so the two things are not mutually exclusive and wouldn’t necessarily cost individual countries any more. We were going to opt out of an EU force anyway whether we were in or out of the EU. Now it’s no longer up for discussion.
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Indeed but perhaps the effectiveness of NATO is measured by the countries within it and that is dominated US defence power which they all get a share in. So yeah no-one really pays for NATO but we all know who really pays for it in terms of resources. If you remove that US power then your effectiveness and capability drops to virtually nothing really so what will this EU army achieve?

People just take what the US brings for granted and think it's a given but there's no chance that they'll accept collaboration and sharing without having influence, especially as some EU countries aren't in NATO. Why would they for example accept France spending more money and resources on an EU army instead of it spending to fulfil its commitments to NATO?

More importantly at the moment - why would the US continue to pay for and operate ballistic missile defence sites in Poland and Romania when European countries are going off to start their own army specifically to remain outside of the influence of the US? If I was the US I'd pack up my site and say you're on your own.

Another question, if the US was attacked then would France strike back as required by their commitment to NATO? What happens if the EU army says no?
 
crazyg said:
I've heard that all over France from the locals. The main gripe is the Parisians buying second homes and pushing up prices, so that young locals can't get on the housing ladder. It's not new - it's the same over here.
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It goes further back than that. I was in an area that a lot still consider to be Cathar. The Pope ordered the French (Parisian) King to destroy the heretics. Further, Paris enforced a law stating only French could be spoken/taught. Even down to Paris backing the Champagne region over a far superior southern version.
 
Blue Mist said:
It goes further back than that. I was in an area that a lot still consider to be Cathar. The Pope ordered the French (Parisian) King to destroy the heretics. Further, Paris enforced a law stating only French could be spoken/taught. Even down to Paris backing the Champagne region over a far superior southern version.
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In Brittany it was illegal to teach the Breton language in schools until the end of WW 2. Now parents can opt to have their children taught in Breton.
Brittany itself only officially accepted it was part of France in the 1920s.
 
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