Russian invasion of Ukraine

SebastianBlue said:
The fact that the gunman were able to commit the attack and then withdraw without engagement is highly suspect, as are Putin’s initial comments, given his intelligence should have been as aware of the likely perpetrator as the US (or Ukraine).
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I think that says more about russia's incompetence personally, they've been given intelligence, and failed to do anything with it.

Sad for the people killed and injured, but no less sad than for those who were bombed and died yesterday and the day before in Ukraine.

The US and UK both said last weekend there was an immenent risk of an extremist attack in moscow, and for our citizens living there to avoid such venues, it didn't happen last weekend obviously, but now it has, it was thought the attack might take place on a jewish venue, sadly a typical IS venue, a music and entertainment venue.

Many think IS have been obliterated, but that's far from reality, it'll come here again soon enough if we're not careful.
 
cleavers said:
I think that says more about russia's incompetence personally, they've been given intelligence, and failed to do anything with it.

Sad for the people killed and injured, but no less sad than for those who were bombed and died yesterday and the day before in Ukraine.

The US and UK both said last weekend there was an immenent risk of an extremist attack in moscow, and for our citizens living there to avoid such venues, it didn't happen last weekend obviously, but now it has, it was thought the attack might take place on a jewish venue, sadly a typical IS venue, a music and entertainment venue.

Many think IS have been obliterated, but that's far from reality, it'll come here again soon enough if we're not careful.
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Again, the US has every reason to solely attribute the attacks to IS. And we and the Americans have issued warnings in the past in advance of suspected Putin actions within Russia (and Ukraine).

I am fully aware IS has not been obliterated and are still able to carry out attacks, as they have in Afghanistan and Iraq in recent weeks. But the circumstances of this attack, deep in Russian territory, timed almost to perfection for Putin, should be questioned.

It will be telling how Putin “responds” to the attack over the next few weeks. That should tell us how likely the attack was to be completely independent of his machinations.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Again, the US has every reason to solely attribute the attacks to IS. And we and the Americans have issued warnings in the past in advance of suspected Putin actions within Russia (and Ukraine).

I am fully aware IS has not been obliterated and are still able to carry out attacks, as they have in Afghanistan and Iraq in recent weeks. But the circumstances of this attack, deep in Russian territory, timed almost to perfection for Putin, should be questioned.

It will be telling how Putin “responds” to the attack over the next few weeks. That should tell us how likely the attack was to be completely independent of his machinations.
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Sometimes we can't always blame putin, as easy as it is, this has all the hallmarks of the paris IS attack for me.

When intelligence agencies who are far from friendly share their intelligence with an "enemy", it says a lot for me, ie they've heard this elsewhere, it would be easy for putin to blame Ukraine for this, so lets see, my hunch is he won't, lets see.
 
cleavers said:
When it was mentioned last weekend I thought it would be an IS attack.

I don't think this is a "false flag" russian thing, there's been intelligence for several weeks that IS wanted to do an attack in moscow, and Ukraine warned russia about it.

The US now saying IS also.
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Very commendable of Ukraine to warn russia about a possible attack. No doubt the Ukrainian's were briefed by western intelligence agencies. I doubt the compliment would be repaid if the boot was on the other foot though.
 
cleavers said:
Sometimes we can't always blame putin, as easy as it is, this has all the hallmarks of the paris IS attack for me.

When intelligence agencies who are far from friendly share their intelligence with an "enemy", it says a lot for me, ie they've heard this elsewhere, it would be easy for putin to blame Ukraine for this, so lets see, my hunch is he won't, lets see.
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The Stockport Iniesta said:
Very commendable of Ukraine to warn russia about a possible attack. No doubt the Ukrainian's were briefed by western intelligence agencies. I doubt the compliment would be repaid if the boot was on the other foot though.
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The alerts from intelligence agencies aren’t always warnings, they are sometimes notices of awareness (i.e. we know what you are planning). In the case of Putin’s Russia, they are more often the latter than the former these days. Ukraine notifying Russia was more a preemptive move than a genuine warning of impending harm. Anyone that thinks Ukraine leadership were genuinely worried for Putin or the residents of Russia are misreading the situation.

And just having the hallmarks of an IS attack does not exclude Putin involvement, especially given the circumstances and timing of the attack.

As far as blaming Ukraine, he essentially already has (indirectly) with his declaration that the Ukraine leadership will be eliminated if they had a hand in the attack.

But, as I said, how he responds in the coming weeks will speak volumes.
 
My cynicism levels are definitely on full alert level here but quite a spectacular return to prominence for the group opaquely known as ISIS.... and in Moscow of all places .....
 
BobKowalski said:
Yeah, I mean planning and executing a terror attack in a van with Ukrainian plates is such a cunning move.
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Lol I bet every police station and army barracks in Moscow has a set of Ukranian plates to put on any vehicle near an "unexpected" terrorist attack.
 
cleavers said:
I don't know that for certain to be fair, only quoting something I heard earlier, but the UK/US certainly had intelligence at least a week ago.
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Yes I think both embassies advised any citizens in Moscow that an attack was imminent, and to avoid large gathering's. I think the yanks even mentioned concert halls specifically, as a potential target.
 
SebastianBlue said:
The alerts from intelligence agencies aren’t always warnings, they are sometimes notices of awareness (i.e. we know what you are planning). In the case of Putin’s Russia, they are more often the latter than the former these days. Ukraine notifying Russia was more a preemptive move than a genuine warning of impending harm. Anyone that thinks Ukraine leadership were genuinely worried for Putin or the residents of Russia are misreading the situation.

And just having the hallmarks of an IS attack does not exclude Putin involvement, especially given the circumstances and timing of the attack.

As far as blaming Ukraine, he essentially already has (indirectly) with his declaration that the Ukraine leadership will be eliminated if they had a hand in the attack.

But, as I said, how he responds in the coming weeks will speak volumes.
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Ukraine warning russia is them saying we know something is likely to go down but it's not us. As for who's behind the attack I'd think the intelligence agencies and politicians in the US/UK know exactly what went down. A case of watch this space.
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
Ukraine warning russia is them saying we know something is likely to go down but it's not us. As for who's behind the attack I'd think the intelligence agencies and politicians in the US/UK know exactly what went down. A case of watch this space.
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Indeed, that is what I was pointing out. But the warning wasn’t for Russia, it was for everyone else to see “it wasn’t Ukraine”, no matter how Putin attempts to spin it.

If I were the US, I would immediately attribute to IS (or whichever no-Ukraine entity claims it) the attack with no other involvement.
 
The US has no reason to doubt Islamic State's claim that it was behind the attack near Moscow.

An unnamed official has told CBS, the BBC's US media partner, that the US provided intelligence to the Russian government - some of it very specific - about a potential attack under the Duty to Warn requirement. This is a non-binding obligation of American spy agencies, if they learn of planned attacks, to alert the intended targets.

The source, said to be familiar with the intelligence, says there has been a steady stream ofinformation dating back to November about IS wanting to strike in Russia. However, they did not know when the US formally warned the Kremlin about the attacks.
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From bbc, I don't sense the US are playing games here, it's good these things are shared, even if you don't like the people you share it with.
 
St.Pauli support said:
I guess I completely understand why... Take care!


No doubt at all. But I fear to think what those exactly are.


Oh I surely prefer a variety of free media (incl. a majority of utter shite) trying to pick the best for myself instead of being drowned by fully controlled state propaganda.
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Sir, nobody is drowned by fully controlled state propaganda. We are a country with a population of 1.4 billion, and our people are spread all over the world. I don't think a fully controlled state propaganda is a good idea. People are travelling all over the world, if you lie to them, they will know it, it's meaningless.
I know people in the west hate to be taught about what to do and what to think. But I think it's not wise to suppose that everyone who supports the government is under the coercion of the government. It's not true.
You western people love freedom, that's good. I think that understanding the truth around the world is beneficial to freedom. The more you know, the freer your mind becomes.
No offense, just some sincere ideas.
 
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