Russian invasion of Ukraine

fulabeer said:
View attachment 68668

Ahem. They are doing just fine. Ahem. They are master strategists... ;)
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mosssideblue said:
The issue the Ruskies have is that Ukraine has proven time and time again they have the capability to bring aircraft out of the sky with modern StA missiles
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They are worried to death everytime they send them up because of this reason.
There was a belter yesterday.
Russian Mi-24 Helicopter had to land,possibly rescuing a pilot who had ejected from an Aircraft.
It was on the ground for no longer than 10 seconds when Ukrainian artillery destroyed it.

Slava Ukraini.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
What specific mistake did Hitler make with the blitz?
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Prior to the blitz the Luftwaffe had focused on the ports, control of the English Channel and the airfields in the south of UK. These incessant raids nearly crippled the RAF airfields in the south, there was a real danger the RAF would have to retreat out of range giving the Germans air superiority over the invasion landing zones. A German bombing raid got lost and mistakenly bombed London, Churchill retaliated by ordering the RAF to bomb Berlin. Hitler flew into a rage at this and the blitz started as he ordered a shift to the cities. With the bombers focusing on the cities the airfields remained operational and the rest is history.

How different history might have turned out if those German bombers hadn’t got lost or had Hitler not lost his shit.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
What specific mistake did Hitler make with the blitz?
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He switched from attacking the RAF - by attacking their airfields, and engaging in drawing out our fighters. This was starting to bear fruit , with heavy RAF losses, albeit with heavy luftwaffe losses as well. But they had more planes/aircrew. If it carried on for another month, they’d be no effective raf fighter strength left in UK - a pre requisite for any seaborne invasion.

I think we had a very minor bombing attack on Berlin, this enraged Hitler and he immediately switched to indescriminate bombing of London (and then other cities) in retaliation.

As with multiple instances in WW2 hitler switched tactics/targets at critical junctures that helped the allies.

So the UK civilian population suffered badly, but it saved the fighter RAF… which grew in strength as more aircraft factories came online, and training programmes started producing greater numbers of pilots.

Edit: as per @metalblue !
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Anyone else find it incredible that the Russian Air force doesn't have control of the skies after a year of war. The Ukrainians can still put up fighter jets. Why have the Russians wasted all those missiles on civilians when surely ukrainian airfields would have been a better target?
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I don't think Russia has access to quality Anti Radiation Missiles (ARMs), which are a prerequisite to disabling AA defences. Also NATO intelligence and Ukraines size makes it very difficult to gain Air-superiority, especially so when those defences can become static.
 
metalblue said:
Prior to the blitz the Luftwaffe had focused on the ports, control of the English Channel and the airfields in the south of UK. These incessant raids nearly crippled the RAF airfields in the south, there was a real danger the RAF would have to retreat out of range giving the Germans air superiority over the invasion landing zones. A German bombing raid got lost and mistakenly bombed London, Churchill retaliated by ordering the RAF to bomb Berlin. Hitler flew into a rage at this and the blitz started as he ordered a shift to the cities. With the bombers focusing on the cities the airfields remained operational and the rest is history.

How different history might have turned out if those German bombers hadn’t got lost or had Hitler not lost his shit.
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This is true and I would add a couple of points.

Hitler did not want to continue the war with the UK, he assumed that after defeat in France terms could be agreed. His air campaign against us was designed to finish the RAF, gain Air supremacy and then the threat of an invasion enough to force us to agree terms. He did not authorise any 'terror' bombing with this in mind. It was intended to be very controlled.

One of the significant flaws was that the ME109s did not have the range, they could only fight for 15mins and then would have to fly back. As a result our planes just had to keep them busy for long enough and they would eventually have to turn and start flying in straight lines back to France, the brits who got shot down could bail out over the UK, the Germans would get shot down over the channel.

The German bombers would suffer as a result, the slow moving bombers had much more range and had to fly pretty straight to find the targets and line up bomb runs. They were picked off in huge numbers due to the lack of fighter cover. The battle of Britain was a climax but the way it unfolded was fairly steady for months, the RAF doing far more damage to the Germans day after day. This gave Churchill confidence and the increasingly stressed Germans started making more mistakes, doing more night bombing and things escalating into the blitz.
 
JASR said:
He switched from attacking the RAF - by attacking their airfields, and engaging in drawing out our fighters. This was starting to bear fruit , with heavy RAF losses, albeit with heavy luftwaffe losses as well. But they had more planes/aircrew. If it carried on for another month, they’d be no effective raf fighter strength left in UK - a pre requisite for any seaborne invasion.

I think we had a very minor bombing attack on Berlin, this enraged Hitler and he immediately switched to indescriminate bombing of London (and then other cities) in retaliation.

As with multiple instances in WW2 hitler switched tactics/targets at critical junctures that helped the allies.

So the UK civilian population suffered badly, but it saved the fighter RAF… which grew in strength as more aircraft factories came online, and training programmes started producing greater numbers of pilots.

Edit: as per @metalblue !
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There was a documentary about it on TV the other day
 
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