Russian invasion of Ukraine

[mosssideblue]

You'd have to ask NATO why they haven't deployed their forces. You'd have to ask the UN why they haven't intervened more. I'm all in favour of crushing the cunts. They might be able to shake their head and tut at the use of phosphorus, but when it comes to nuclear weapons, they have no excuse, and would act.

What you seem to have misinterpreted is my stance; I am sick to death of people using the "Putin could use nukes" threat as a means to be afraid of their potential deployment. What's the alternative? Stop supplying Ukraine? Giving in to Putin? You've convinced yourself he WOULD use them, yet he hasn't despite threatening that if NATO and the EU supplies Ukraine with HIMARS/Tanks/Jets, he would use them.

Well we did, and he hasn't. So maybe stop thinking he will use them and wanting to avoid escalating the war? Because even he knows if he uses them, he is done. They aren't useful to him except in the event of a threat against his nation, which nobody is suggesting. We want Russian forces out of Ukraine and only an increased level of force will do it, so stop being afraid of Putin's response to NATO involvement in Ukraine, and get rid of the bastards.

I think if your opening gambit was Putin won't use Nucs because he knows that would mean reaction from NATO, then I could see your point ( not necessarily agree with it), but you stated it was because he would be breaking international law, and that would be the red line.

But, as we have agreed, international law is not the red line.

I'm with you in that I want to see Russia humiliated in this war and Ukraine recover all their territory, and hopefully history will show that.

I am convinced though that this monster is so unstable and has a total disregard for democracy and human life that, as a legacy to such a humiliation, Putin' would test that red line

 

[cleavers]

Yes I know this.

I'm not the one stating that he ever would use them. I'm stating the many, many reasons why Putin would not seriously consider using nuclear weapons in this conflict. It's a complete non-debate yet it somehow keeps appearing on here about Russia's nuclear arsenal.

I don't know what runs through his head, and I agree it's highly unlikely, but I would never say "never" in his case.

I think a lot of people forget that this conflict didn't start a year ago, it started 9 years ago, and has never really stopped since, it escalated a year ago, but has been laregly repelled back to where it was a year ago, after a brief hiatus last spring, so he has already "lost" what he aimed to achieve then.

How much more he loses we don't know, but my suspicion is that if Ukraine genearlly threatened to take Crimea back, then the threats might be more serious, on that we'll have to wait and see.

However anyone thinking the UN or international law make any difference, forget it, he doesn't give a fuck sadly.

 

[cleavers]

i don't know who is coming but i'm sure there'll be some pissboiling in kremlin because of this visit ;]

I think we can guess, given he was already visiting Poland this week.

 

[CTID1977]

I think we can guess, given he was already visiting Poland this week.

 

[CTID1977]

 

[SPIDERBOY]

British Defense Intelligence :-

"It is likely that Russia will claim that Bakhmut has been captured to align with the anniversary,regardless of the reality on the ground".

Slava Ukraini.

 

[Metal Biker]

I think if your opening gambit was Putin won't use Nucs because he knows that would mean reaction from NATO, then I could see your point ( not necessarily agree with it), but you stated it was because he would be breaking international law, and that would be the red line.

But, as we have agreed, international law is not the red line.

I'm with you in that I want to see Russia humiliated in this war and Ukraine recover all their territory, and hopefully history will show that.

I am convinced though that this monster is so unstable and has a total disregard for democracy and human life that, as a legacy to such a humiliation, Putin' would test that red line

'Opening gambit'? You mean had an opinion?

That's what your problem was? Nuclear weapons are banned under international law, so NATO would use that as justification to intervene? I never even stated it was the 'red line', we're already beyond that point, use of nuclear weapons would only add further justification. Unless the use of nukes is blase in your opinion.

 

[CTID1977]

 

[Blue Maverick]

And because of that you think he'd still use nukes if he was cornered? That he'd see that as a viable option to victory knowing he hasn't got the strength to defeat a NATO response? That China would support him in effectively destroying the modern world?

Your opinion of the UN still doesn't change the fact that use of nuclear weapons are banned under international law, and once used that nation becomes intantly vilified and NATO would be given carte blanche to use all necessary force to remove the current regime from power, with the UN's blessing.

Do you think at that point Putin would care about winning he would want to take as many with him

 

[Metal Biker]

I don't know what runs through his head, and I agree it's highly unlikely, but I would never say "never" in his case.

I think a lot of people forget that this conflict didn't start a year ago, it started 9 years ago, and has never really stopped since, it escalated a year ago, but has been laregly repelled back to where it was a year ago, after a brief hiatus last spring, so he has already "lost" what he aimed to achieve then.

How much more he loses we don't know, but my suspicion is that if Ukraine genearlly threatened to take Crimea back, then the threats might be more serious, on that we'll have to wait and see.

However anyone thinking the UN or international law make any difference, forget it, he doesn't give a fuck sadly.

Cheap Russian energy and plenty of Roubles will do a lot to influence our world leaders, it seems.

Our woeful reaction to Crimea was akin to "ah, mate, don't do that..."

But again, i'm not basing my entire premise of what the UN would do or banking on their intervention as the saviour moment of the conflict, I merely gave an example of how it would heap more international pressure on his already weak shoulders and things would escalate, not be ignored.