Russian invasion of Ukraine

fulabeer said:
I've found with proven liars, you take everything they defend as a lie.
This is because they only defend what isn't true.

Whatever the Ukraine agrees to, we need to keep our foot on Putin's throat.
Sanction lifting shouldn't be part of any agreement they come to. Our sanctions aren't anything to do with the Ukraine.. as such.
This is because the threat from Putin goes beyond Ukraine.
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Whilst principally an attack on Ukraine this was also an attack on wider Europe and the principal reason Putin thought he could get away with it relatively unscathed was because of our dependence on commerce with Russia, especially her oil and gas exports.

It would be insanity to go back to anything vaguely resembling that, or in my view, go back at all. Their isolation must continue. Otherwise, all we would be doing is fucking ourselves for the future.

How does that even work anyway? That European nations are forced to trade with Russia? How would that even be enforced? Europe needs to stand strong and united on this.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Whilst principally an attack on Ukraine this was also an attack on wider Europe and the principal reason Putin thought he could get away with it relatively unscathed was because of our dependence on commerce with Russia, especially her oil and gas exports.

It would be insanity to go back to anything vaguely resembling that, or in my view, go back at all. Their isolation must continue. Otherwise, all we would be doing is fucking ourselves for the future.

How does that even work anyway? That European nations are forced to trade with Russia? How would that even be enforced? Europe needs to stand strong and united on this.
Click to expand...

Putin will not be forever.

Russian oil and gas will be used throughout Europe again at some point mate.

It’s distasteful to even think about such things at the moment but it will happen imo.
 
CTID1977 said:
he will be hungry and driven by the same fucking imperial ideas. it will always be the west's guilt that they live in shit and so on.
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Well, the successor could be incompetent and killed off in spite of having the same imperial ideas.
Or the successor might be imperialistic but realistic and recognize that it's suicide to attack the west. Such a successor might blame Putin for the mess and strike a peace deal.
Or the successor might be secretly for the good of Russia and realize that imperialistic ideas are outdated. Putin formed his aggressive mindset decades ago as a KGB officer during the cold war. A new leader might not have this mindset at all.
Or the successor could be batshit crazy and start dropping nukes.

Who knows? But on balance, I think a Putin successor is going to be better for the West than Putin is.
 
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