Russian invasion of Ukraine

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Ask yourself this, what are Russia vulnerable to? A NATO invasion? If Ukraine joined NATO or even the EU then what would the problem be? To flip it, why does Ukraine not view its NATO neighbour Poland as a threat but Russia does?

The only reason to fear a NATO country next door is if you want to keep the right to give your neighbours a battering from time to time and that's what Russia has done in the past and is doing now.

Basically if Russia stopped acting like twats then they would have nothing to fear from NATO or even the west.

Spot on.

Putin is an ex-KGB official. He's ambitious, ruthless and mostly desires personal gain. At the same time he seems to be a nationalist - longing for the days of Russian eminence. Thus, it's entirely foreseeable that Russia, under Putin, first invades Georgia. And then Crimea. And now, the Ukraine.

And while invading its neighbors, of course, its to Putin's advantage to confuse the West - to promote ideas that support its aggressions.

Unbelievable that so many people are idiots.... somehow believing Russia's claims that a western-leaning Ukraine is an existential threat and thus that Russia's invasion is justified. WTF!? How idiotically stupid can such sheep be?!?!?

 

[Vester]

Ask yourself this, what are Russia vulnerable to? A NATO invasion? If Ukraine joined NATO or even the EU then what would the problem be? To flip it, why does Ukraine not view its NATO neighbour Poland as a threat but Russia does?

The only reason to fear a NATO country next door is if you want keep the right to give your neighbours a battering from time to time and that's what Russia has done in the past and is doing now.

Basically if Russia stopped acting like twats then they would have nothing to fear from NATO or even the west.

Why should I ask myself, I'm not the one saying Russia has anything to fear from Nato. I dont think they do.

I do on the other hand think Russia and Putin fear USA, and by Nato expanding more to the east, they feel like USA is more or less expanding its boarder against them. I think Putin and Russia are very concerned about this, and in no way believe the reasons being said publicly behind it. Countries are often paranoid about these kind of stuff, and dont trust what their enemies say their intentions are. Just like Americans dont trust Russia and China, they dont trust Americans.

I agree with you that Russia are acting like twats. What you fail to consider, is that from Russias point of view, they dont think they are the ones acting like twats. They think USA are the twats, by expanding their territory (thats how they see Nato) against them. From their point of view, USA is not the hero, the world police, who intervene in every countries war and brings order and freedom to the world. From their point of view, USA is the villain, bringing death and destruction all over the world in conflicts they have nothing to do with.
I'm not saying they are right, I'm just saying that Russia see themselves as the good ones, and USA as the evil.

Not the other way around as we do.

 

[Metal Biker]

Why should I ask myself, I'm not the one saying Russia has anything to fear from Nato. I dont think they do.

I do on the other hand think Russia and Putin fear USA, and by Nato expanding more to the east, they feel like USA is more or less expanding its boarder against them. I think Putin and Russia are very concerned about this, and in no way believe the reasons being said publicly behind it. Countries are often paranoid about these kind of stuff, and dont trust what their enemies say their intentions are. Just like Americans dont trust Russia and China, they dont trust Americans.

I agree with you that Russia are acting like twats. What you fail to consider, is that from Russias point of view, they dont think they are the ones acting like twats. They think USA are the twats, by expanding their territory (thats how they see Nato) against them. From their point of view, USA is not the hero, the world police, who intervene in every countries war and brings order and freedom to the world. From their point of view, USA is the villain, bringing death and destruction all over the world in conflicts they have nothing to do with.
I'm not saying they are right, I'm just saying that Russia see themselves as the good ones, and USA as the evil.

Not the other way around as we do.

Pretty sure that everyone criticising Putin knows that already. Neither is anybody making an argument to "see things from the other side of the debate" because Putin has NO logical or reasonable excuse for doing what he's doing.

We know Putin sees the US as the enemy. We know Putin hates that Europe is becoming more allied with western policies. We know that Putin fears NATO and has concocted this story to justify this illegal invasion of a peaceful country.

The fact is nobody cares, and RIGHTLY so, about what Putin thinks. His arguments, fears and justifications are laughable, for want of a better word, and aren't worth debating or discussing. Neither should you assume people don't already know just because they aren't dicussing it. Putin's point of view isn't being discussed because we already know it and it's pathetic.

 

[Vester]

By this logic, NATO now has every right to be concerned that Russia is expanding militarily and by force towards peaceful NATO members and should act accordingly.

Whether NATO 'expands' or not, NATO is no threat to Russia. If Russia were not a threat to these countries, NATO would not need to exist now would it. Ukraine wanted to join because they felt Russia was a threat to their safety and sovereignty meanwhile the Russians were saying Ukrainians had nothing to fear from Russia. Wow, look how that turned out.

Nato are of course very concerned about Russia invasion of Ukraine, thats pretty obvious, not sure what your point was.

You say Nato is no threat to Russia, I agree. Thats why I said I think Putin is deranged/paranoid to think so. Russia strongly disagree, as their invasion to Ukraine shows. They think Nato is a huge threat to Russia. They couldnt have made that more clear, they want the US lead war machine (that how they view Nato, not me) to keep its distance. We might disagree and say its not a threat, Nato is just a defense alliance. That doesnt change the fact that Russia thinks it is, and their actions are a result of that.

 

[Coatigan]

Exactly.

It's not about him. It's about asking the right questions of how and why we ended up in this fucked up situation.

The first casualty of war is truth.

Official propaganda is coming from all sides and people must trust their own intelligence to what we see or read on whatever social media were on.

What is the right question?

Why someone like Putin with ambitions to conquer formerly held states that have become independent went on to do what he intended to do.

Because that's what he intended to do. He would have found any old excuse. And the Russell Brands, Twatbananas 1 and 2 and the likes would have lapped them up in the search for an alternative truth.

Maybe the more important questions are hiw has someone like him stayed and grown in power so long and amassed the resource to back his convictions.

'Ooh look, an alterantive take on it, the west/eu/nato caused this by filling the Ukranians' tiny little brains with liberal ideas of soveirgnty and decision making, how dared they gradually endanger Putin into doing the unthinkable'.

 

[Metal Biker]

Nato are of course very concerned about Russia invasion of Ukraine, thats pretty obvious, not sure what your point was.

You say Nato is no threat to Russia, I agree. Thats why I said I think Putin is deranged/paranoid to think so. Russia strongly disagree, as their invasion to Ukraine shows. They think Nato is a huge threat to Russia. They couldnt have made that more clear, they want the US lead war machine (that how they view Nato, not me) to keep its distance. We might disagree and say its not a threat, Nato is just a defense alliance. That doesnt change the fact that Russia thinks it is, and their actions are a result of that.

Do you honestly think people on here aren't aware of that?

What do you want to discuss next, why Russia are using bombs instead of harsh words?

 

[Roy Munson]

Thanks for doing that. I don't like to dismiss stuff without seeing it first but I make an exception for anything from that twat Brand. Good of you to subject yourself to listening to a bit of it to validate my decision.

The guy is an absolute ****. Pretends to offer an 'alternative' to the evil, lying, capatalist MSM, whilst peddling tinfoil hat nonsense and begging for subscribers to line his pockets on a platform owned by Google!

More's the pity, there are idiots fucking stupid enough to sustain his shite. The kind of cunts we have on here actually. You know the ones. The 'you're too stupid to understand, we need to burn the whole system down' bellends who scream for change without ever leaving the comfort of their living rooms and have never encountered true hardship in their lives.

Cunts one, cunts all.

 

[Vester]

It's you that needs to educate yourself. Start with how you spell border before you move on to anything more complicated.

Hopefully you can excuse me since English is my second language, and sometimes that means I will do some spelling mistakes. Hope you understood what I wrote anyway:)

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Again I'm not saying I know everything, but if you simply use the argument "they already have Nato on their boarder so there is no difference" its quite obvious you basically have no idea what you talking about and should educate yourself a bit more before getting into further discussions on the subject. If you fail to realize Russia is concerned about Nato expanding to the east and Ukraine becoming a part of Nato, regardless if you think the concerns are valid or not, you must simply have been living under a rock the last 14 years and/or had zero knowledge about the Ukraine situation before Russia invaded them a couple of days ago.

There is also a big difference in importance about how much more vulnerable Russia are along its border to Ukraine, than what they are along the boarder they share with Norway, the Baltics or even USA. Its barely even people living along their border with Norway, its so far up North. Same can be said about their border with Alaska. The Baltics basically have a population of a small Russian city so its nothing they need to be super worried about, from a Russian point of view. But it was quite obvious they were unwilling to let Nato expand to these countries as well at the time, even if they didnt use military force to prevent it. I think this has mainly to do with that Russia didnt have the financial muscles to go to war back then as they have today, but thats just my guess.

Like I said ,I dont think Russia has any right to invade Ukraine regardless if they are concerned about Nato or not. I just find it hard to understand why anyone would think that the reason Russia chooses to invade Ukraine, has anything to do with something else than Ukraines potential Nato expansion.

How would the points you raise with respect of NATO differ with an EU army on its border? I am curious as I posted a short while ago about this and I think its very relevant to the type of argument you raise about Russia's concern's with Nato on its border which I have seen elsewhere and lets face it is the only reason being given for this invasion.

I am genuinely intrigued why Putin will see a big distinction between NATO versus an EU army with an additional 1,350 km of border through Finland that it will have to contend with.

 

[JASR]

I really think you should show more respect to the author of "My Booky Wook"

I prefer Han's version 'My Wooky book'