Russian invasion of Ukraine

gordondaviesmoustache said:
They shouldn’t be paying the US anything. The aid wasn’t given contingent on natural resources going the other way and so that should be the starting point.

I think Europe will need to quickly appreciate that it cannot trust anything this US administration says, included in which is Article 5, and should deal with accordingly.
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We are at the start of 4 years of virtually no relationship politically with the US. I say 4, no doubt the constitution will be changed and it leads to 8.

How this effects NATO and our special relationship before his tenure ends I’ve no idea but I fear it’s going to be incredibly bad.
 
I understand that trump wants Europe to pay more for defence (I agree with him) but his actions in attacking his neighbours, Europe, Ukraine, Greenland etc seem so disjointed as to be senseless. He has no plan and long term this will smash the USA position in economic and military terms. Everyone will find other markets for their goods and other suppliers for what they buy from the yanks. Most important being military stuff. Who would buy a yank tank or missile when they want to dictate how and when it’s used and costs millions when they could get modern, proven drones from Ukraine?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
They shouldn’t be paying the US anything. The aid wasn’t given contingent on natural resources going the other way and so that should be the starting point.

I think Europe will need to quickly appreciate that it cannot trust anything this US administration says, included in which is Article 5, and should deal with accordingly.
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Perhaps the mineral rights are dependent on future aid and backing? That would make more sense for Ukraine.
 
blueinsa said:
I think he will but I’m hoping it won’t really matter as the rest of us won’t lift them and we may even go in harder on them.

Trump will then spend the week calling us silly names no doubt.
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Trump just loves been fawned over he’s after ratings and clicks he’s just a fucking child, oh look at what I did today, it’s reprehensible.
 
I know that last Trump presidency he had a meeting with Putin without any intelligence people there - was that illegal or just breach of normality?

Witkoff has done the same - 3 1/2 hours, he says - with just translators. Does this Special Envoy status make a difference?
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
It’s odd that the Americans never seem to recall the only time article 5 was ever invoked…..
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They remember, but Afghanistan was a minor thing compared to the ~375k Americans who died in Europe last century fighting insane European wars, not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars spent rebuilding and protecting Europe after. Islamic terrorism was a threat to Europe as well, so the idea it was purely altruistic action by Europe doesn't bear scrutiny. The idea that we owe mainland Europe anything on balance doesn't pass the laugh test for most Americans.
 
Not seen this reported elsewhere yet, but if accurate just look at who US is now aligned with. Belarus, NK, Mali etc.



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WT86 said:
They remember, but Afghanistan was a minor thing compared to the ~375k Americans who died in Europe last century fighting insane European wars, not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars spent rebuilding and protecting Europe after. Islamic terrorism was a threat to Europe as well, so the idea it was purely altruistic action by Europe doesn't bear scrutiny. The idea that we owe mainland Europe anything on balance doesn't pass the laugh test for most Americans.
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Pearl Harbour and 911 have shown the US needs allies from europe no matter how "insane"...
 
WT86 said:
They remember, but Afghanistan was a minor thing compared to the ~375k Americans who died in Europe last century fighting insane European wars, not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars spent rebuilding and protecting Europe after. Islamic terrorism was a threat to Europe as well, so the idea it was purely altruistic action by Europe doesn't bear scrutiny. The idea that we owe mainland Europe anything on balance doesn't pass the laugh test for most Americans.
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Had Europeans not Fought Hitler you’d be goose stepping with the rest of us now.
 
WT86 said:
They remember, but Afghanistan was a minor thing compared to the ~375k Americans who died in Europe last century fighting insane European wars, not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars spent rebuilding and protecting Europe after. Islamic terrorism was a threat to Europe as well, so the idea it was purely altruistic action by Europe doesn't bear scrutiny. The idea that we owe mainland Europe anything on balance doesn't pass the laugh test for most Americans.
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Europe does need to step up, no question. But if you don’t want to abide by agreements or treaties don’t sign them. If you do sign them you have to stick to them. USA signed up for NATO and is the only country to ever call in its services. Trump is now trying to rape ukraine of its resources and do a deal with Putin. He has no authority or mandate to negotiate so.

I suggest he stay in the US and keep feeding all you guys his bullshit and leave the rest of the world to live their lives
 
WT86 said:
They remember, but Afghanistan was a minor thing compared to the ~375k Americans who died in Europe last century fighting insane European wars, not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars spent rebuilding and protecting Europe after. Islamic terrorism was a threat to Europe as well, so the idea it was purely altruistic action by Europe doesn't bear scrutiny. The idea that we owe mainland Europe anything on balance doesn't pass the laugh test for most Americans.
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Did the Afghanistan war reduce the risk of terrorism in Europe?
 
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