Russian invasion of Ukraine

inbetween said:
If he keeps moving west (why would he?) then we defend ourselves plain and simple, we have nuclear weapons ourselves for that defence too. Ironically a number on here would have rid us of nuclear weapons only 5-6 years ago which is funny. I'm completely in favour of increased defence spending for this reason.

Ukraine does not form part of what constitutes something that we should defend because Ukraine is not in NATO and technically not in the European/EU sphere. That's why we don't already have boots on the ground now. Defending it therefore becomes problematic and also any action we do take would be taken as total war with Russia.

We can obviously keep giving Ukraine money and keep supporting them with equipment but how/when does that story end? Does it continue forever? That's fine I guess, it's great for the arms industry but I can't see how it's anything other than an ongoing death sentence for Ukrainians.
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We give more support to Ukraine now, enough to make more inroads and damage within Russia to either cripple them financially or until someone takes out Putin
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Much as I would like to, I cannot agree more. He is just not the man for the job I'm afraid.
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So if I’m following you, he’s saying the right things, you don’t know what he’s going to say or do in the future, yet you’ve decided already he isn’t the man for the job. Either I’ve missed something or that makes no sense at all.
 
St.Pauli support said:
That's the outcome if a pacifist thinks he can negotiate with a brutal authoritarian expansionist who wants more power and land...

But its' typical. Pre putin's brutal war Green Party in Germany were pacifists. They believed in a peaceful world - like myself. We knew that we need our budget for the transition of our economy to stop mass extinction (a dead topic nowadays) and global warming (finished as a topic as well). Defence spending sounded insane and a waste.

Now - after the shock that there are other people on earth in the 21st century who easily would kill and sacrifice millions of lives for even more power - Green voters have the HIGHEST agreement to supporting Ukraine and heavily upping defence spending. Higher than conservatives and anybody else!

That's the fate of a pacifist. It's nice to be one in times of peace, but when all of a sudden war steps in your life, a pacifist is useless as he will just be blown away while waving his white flag.

It's easy to have an opinion about a war somewhere else.

But you have to answer the question as if the shells would come closer to your own house and your daughter starts crying. And the shelling won't stop. What about your country, your way of life, family, friends and the apple tree in your garden where your wife said "yes"?

And suddenly you realize you have no choice but somehow have to stand up even if you would like to run away. Shite options, eh?
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I too am a pacifist but I long ago realised that you can only have peace by making sure you follow the Theodore Rosavelt maxim of "Speak quietly but carry a big stick" and Winston Churchil's maxim of "Jaw Jaw is better than war war."
I lost quiet a few friends back in the early 80s when I realised that CND nuclear disarmament and adopting the Swiss approach to neautrality were both fools errands... They only encourage the dictators to actually arm to the hilt and attack you or your friends.
To be sure I'm not sure why the West wasn't prepared to talk to Russia over Ukraine - though Putin was/is still clearly intent on conquering Ukraine by military or hybrid means so there wouldn't be much point except regularly asking "Are you ready to talk about this yet?"
 
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BlueAnorak said:
I lost quiet a few friends back in the early 80s when I realised that CND nuclear disarmament and adopting the Swiss approach to neautrality were both fools errands... They only encourage the dictators to actually arm to the hilt and attack you or your friends.
To be sure I'm not sure why the West wasn't prepared to talk to Russia over Ukraine - though Putin was/is still clearly intent on conquering Ukraine my military or hybrid means so there wouldn't be much point except regularly asking "Are you ready to talk about this yet?"
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I didn’t lose friends but followed a similar path to enlightenment.
I do not think Putin was prepared to talk to the west to be honest.
Well done to the horse wanking dwarf in the Kremlin. I bet even the Ukrainian born Breznehev and Mikhail Gorbachev’s maternal side can still feel the spit on their graves.
 
I don’t think there has been a time since feb2022 that anyone (Inc orange47) could have brought the Russians to the negotiating table as they were winning the war, albeit slowly. Even if they did negotiate, what could the west have offered that would have made him stop? Trump is talking but nothing concrete yet and the Russians are only talking to get breathing space to regroup. They haven’t changed their stance that Ukraine should cease to exist and won’t so why waste time? As long as Ukraine wants to fight, we support them as much as possible. If that means we do some more rear echelon stuff as well as providing weaponry then that’s fine. I cannot see the Russians being able to continue after this year at their current pace even with help from NK whereas Ukraine will only get stronger as Europe builds up its capacity so Slava Fucking Ukraine.

Oh, and drop the bridge - you know it makes sense
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Putin has claimed Kherson, Donetsk and Luhansk. You are proposing that if Zelensky had offered these to Russia and promised never to have joined NATO, there would have been no war?

Do I have that correct?
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How quickly people forget the early days of the war, Russia entered from the north, a twenty five mile line of TANKS heading for Kyiv, on the way they committed war crimes in Bucha. Only the will of the people making Molotov cocktails stopped the invasion. Russia did an SAS style helicopter attack on the main Kyiv airport
 
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Kirkstall Blue said:
How quickly people forget the early days of the war, Russia entered from the north, a twenty five mile line of TANKS heading for Kyiv, on the way they committed war crimes in Bucha. Only the will of the people making Molotov cocktails stopped the invasion. Russia did an SAS style helicopter attack on the main airport
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Yeah, the "if only the idiot Zelensky had negotiated properly"... ..."he'd have avoided war with the murderous tyranny next door which stated that his country wasn't real and believed they could overwhelm it in three days"

Followed by

"If only he'd surrendered three provinces giving Putin a much easier route to Kjiv, his country would be peaceful now!"
 
blueparrot said:
So if I’m following you, he’s saying the right things, you don’t know what he’s going to say or do in the future, yet you’ve decided already he isn’t the man for the job. Either I’ve missed something or that makes no sense at all.
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When I see certain people commenting on these things, I know that the country are getting it right.

Heard both Badenoch and Davey say that they’d have done the same as the government, but would have gone further and faster. Nearly crying listening to the cunts. Why didn’t Badenoch do any of it, and why can’t Davey tell us how they’d pay for it.

Like I’ve said earlier, good to see a government governing, actually making decisions instead of continuing to run the country down.
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
How quickly people forget the early days of the war, Russia entered from the north, a twenty five mile line of TANKS heading for Kyiv, on the way they committed war crimes in Bucha. Only the will of the people making Molotov cocktails stopped the invasion. Russia did an SAS style helicopter attack on the main airport
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Also how people forget before the war that Macron et al visited Putin to persuade him not to invade. To offer an "off ramp" was the phrase in vogue. Sat at the other end of the 20 foot long beech table Putin did not listen. Instead he lectured about Russian history and imperialism.

Putiin denied plans for an invasion and lied that the build of hundreds of thousands of troops on the borders was a simple military drill with Belarus. He even denies there is war at all. Its just a special military operation.
 
Can we have a poll on blowing the bridge up, answer Yes or No and pass the result on to Zelenskyy
I’ll start Yes
 
cityontheup said:
So we should just roll over and turn our backs on Ukraine ? Then what do we do when he keeps moving west ?
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Surrender.
It's the safest thing to do.
Ok all my beloved children will be carted off to work in a Lithium mine but at least they'd be alive.
I'd never see them again but it's a small price to pay.
Same with my grandkids, born to a Ukrainian slave sorry worker. Id never see them as someone has to provide for the next generation of miners, especially when life expectancy is 35.

In fact, let's cut out the middle man (trump) and surrender now.
 
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