Russian invasion of Ukraine

Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Either way, Ukraine are not winning this war. This best they can hope for now is a deal of some sorts but it won’t be a good one for them. They will end up giving up land to the Russians and minerals to the Americans. I don’t think they can win. They have been stitched up.
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If that's how it continues to play out Europe CANNOT allow that to happen under any circumstance unless Ukraine decides that is it's desired outcome (which it obviously isn't).

Get creative Europe, find alternative dance partners on the world stage - as seemingly we have (or should have) increasingly less and less in common with America*

The Donald continuing down this route of looking to bully Canada, Mexico etc etc etc it won't be long until a lot of the globe decide to stop buying American - I'm immediately thinking football club ownership here.

Already being mooted for Europe to start creating their own versions of American exports (say Amazon / Facebook etc), you can definitely see a pretty quick sea of change to large parts deciding not to buy American anymore and once those consumers have been weaned off they won't be returning in a hurry.

* You look at all of the poor decisions we have been making as a nation politically and this may just about be the biggest wake up call if it can then managed well by Labour for the foreseeable (yes, that's not a gimme).............
 
Slipper One said:
Hypothetically speaking, let's say a magic wand is waved and Ukraine is given NATO membership, what would happen?

Russia would..........invade?

Russia would attack NATO?

Putin would threatened everybody with his nuclear weapons...............again?


Just wondering what your thoughts are James?
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It just seems to me that Ukraine joining NATO will inflame everything. I can’t see it happening. Putin will stop at nothing. Talking now is the only solution and whoever gets them all round the table doesn’t bother me, as long as they do. ‘James’! that was my dad’s name, a blue all his life.
 
Jimmieblue said:
It just seems to me that Ukraine joining NATO will inflame everything. I can’t see it happening. Putin will stop at nothing. Talking now is the only solution and whoever gets them all round the table doesn’t bother me, as long as they do. ‘James’! that was my dad’s name, a blue all his life.
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Would he though?

Do you actually think he would press the button over Ukraine joining NATO?

Threaten, stamp his feet, throw his toys out of his pram, yes, but actually do it?

Talking is fine, but from Ukraines point of view, they are only worthwhile if they are meaningful............and not some bully using them to extract what he wants, because he thinks he can.
 
I don't post often, I tend to read people's opinions and the information put forward and if I agree or find it interesting or informative I "like" their posts. This format isn't the most instinctive for me.

However, I felt the need to take time and post this morning to say that I can't believe where the world is today with the actions of the US clearly siding with, and even more frighteningly aiding and abetting, an invader of a sovereign state and indicted war criminal.

The ambush of President Zelensky in the Oval Office was horrendous, possibly the most incidios act of a regime in modern times. I'm still, days later incredulous.

And now things have gotten worse, the Orange Fuckwit withdrawing aid to Ukraine to, I guess, fulfill his own poisonous vested interests.

I know posters here have a very personal stake in what is happening, family and friends directly involved in reversing the repellent actions of the tyrant from Russia and freeing their homeland from his terrany and misery. My heart goes out to them, I cannot comprehend how they must be feeling especially after this latest betrayal.

Finally, to those unsure if this fight must continue to those who say Trump is making peace happen or those accusing others of warmongering, I believe everyone here and fighting in Ukraine want peace....just not a peace like this.
 
Slipper One said:
Would he though?

Do you actually think he would press the button over Ukraine joining NATO?

Threaten, stamp his feet, throw his toys out of his pram, yes, but actually do it?

Talking is fine, but from Ukraines point of view, they are only worthwhile if they are meaningful............and not some bully using them to extract what he wants, because he thinks he can.
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We are dealing with madmen here, who knows what they will do. Since 9/11 this whole world has become dangerous. A person can only state things they believe in from their experience through life. I’m putting my perspective forward.

Are we ever told the truth? Not in my experience.

Have previous ill thought out wars solved anything? Not in my experience.

Have they made things worse? In some cases definitely yes.

Have ordinary people suffered? Yes

Has the war made people safer? No

Has war made a lot of industrialists, politicians etc richer? Yes

Can you trust leaders? For part of my life I had trust in them, now I most definitely don’t. That’s coming from my experience.

That’s where I’m coming from.
 
A couple of things occur about the latest development. Firstly it’s got to be the end of US military aid to Ukraine, full stop, as the basis for resumption is an irrational one, given the resumption of arms supplies is based on a commitment to engaging in peace talks. If the latter were to happen (and based upon a US subjective assessment) then the former wouldn’t be required. It’s over.

The second thing is that these supplies are based on previous US commitments and so the starting point from here is that the US will not keep to any agreement it makes or will make - and this should inform the policy of every nation dealing with it, especially Europe as this approach has to apply to Article 5.

Bad faith actors and a rogue state. What a fucking state of affairs.
 
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What a scum bag Trump is...
Or is that Agent Kraznov - which is looking to be more and more of a true story every day...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent

www.dailykos.com

Breaking: US pauses all military aid to Ukraine

Reported by AP via the Wall Street Journal and by Reuters via the Guardian: White House official: 'We are pausing and reviewing our aid to ensure that it is contributing to a solution' The official who spoke to Reuters said that the, “President has...
www.dailykos.com
 
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
A couple of things occur about the latest development. Firstly it’s got to be the end of US military aid to Ukraine, full stop, as the basis for resumption is an irrational one, given the resumption of arms supplies is based on a commitment to engaging in peace talks. If the latter were to happen (and based upon a US subjective assessment) then the former wouldn’t be required. It’s over.

The second thing is that these supplies are based on previous US commitments and so the starting point from here is that the US will not keep to any agreement it makes or will make - and this should inform the policy of every nation dealing with it, especially Europe as this approach has to apply to Article 5.

Bad faith actors and a rogue state. What a fucking state of affairs.
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Exactly this.

Cannot be trusted under any circumstances going forward.
 
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