Russian invasion of Ukraine

Metal Biker said:
Ukraine wouldn't be in this situation if Europe had the balls to back Ukraine militarily right from the off.
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What do you mean ?

In 2022, 2014, or when USSR collapsed ?

and....

How do you mean ?

Sent in our troops to fight ?



There's another thread on here bemoaning the fact we can't recruit enough for our armed forces (though I dispute that - we can - the problem is retaining them long term). The biggest reason for some of that is our goverment(s) sending our forces to fight in wars on foreign soil that were nothing really to do with us.
 
cleavers said:
What do you mean ?

In 2022, 2014, or when USSR collapsed ?

and....

How do you mean ?

Sent in our troops to fight ?



There's another thread on here bemoaning the fact we can't recruit enough for our armed forces (though I dispute that - we can - the problem is retaining them long term). The biggest reason for some of that is our goverment(s) sending our forces to fight in wars on foreign soil that were nothing really to do with us.
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Send them the equipment that they asked for from the start, and continue to supply them.
 
Absolutely disgusting to treat the people of Ukraine in this way Europe needs to stand firm with Ukraine, can you imagine Trump ever accepting this deal for American
 
CTID1977 said:
Experts were puzzled today after noticing that the new American “peace plan” reads like it was drafted in Russian first, then run through a tired translator, with every point conveniently aligned with Moscow’s interests. The giveaway is a sentence such as “Russia is expected not to invade neighboring countries,” a phrasing no English speaker uses unless their brain is running Russian settings. Officials say the whole thing looks less like US policy and more like homework checked by the Kremlin, reinforcing the now familiar pattern that anything coming out of Trump’s orbit somehow lands perfectly on Russia’s side every single time.

@Microinteracti1
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Why is anyone puzzled.
Krasnov has been dictated to by Putin about what must happen.
 
Metal Biker said:
Send them the equipment that they asked for from the start, and continue to supply them.
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We (and a good chunk of Europe, as well as the US) have been supporting Ukraine with training since 2014, and hardware since 2022, so they have been supported. There's a good reason they weren't over run in Feb 2022, and that is 8 years of training from NATO.

Has it been enough, probably not, but it has held the line for 3 years. If you check the maps from summer 2022, and today, there has been very little change in reality, and that is because of the support given.

That was why I asked about sending troops in to fight.
 
cleavers said:
We (and a good chunk of Europe, as well as the US) have been supporting Ukraine with training since 2014, and hardware since 2022, so they have been supported. There's a good reason they weren't over run in Feb 2022, and that is 8 years of training from NATO.

Has it been enough, probably not, but it has held the line for 3 years. If you check the maps from summer 2022, and today, there has been very little change in reality, and that is because of the support given.

That was why I asked about sending troops in to fight.
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They have failed to prevent Trump backing Putin's terms of surrender, maybe they tried but no public condemnation.
The ceding of the Donbas defensive lines would hand over the whole country in the not so distant future.
 
johnny crossan said:
They have failed to prevent Trump backing Putin's terms of surrender, maybe they tried but no public condemnation.
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Yes but I'd argue that putins "terms of surrender" have failed too, quite a long time ago, his original terms were to take everything to the Polish border, in reality he hasn't really taken anything since summer 2022.

I don't support this so called deal, but the reality is, at some point there has to be a deal of some kind, Ukraine can't go on getting bombed the shit out of every night, even if no significant land is being taken, just lives, and nor can russias economy go on being degraded at the rate it is (energy infrastructure).

Are you backing sending troops in ? I very much doubt it, if not though what do you suggest as an alternative ?
 
cleavers said:
Yes but I'd argue that putins "terms of surrender" have failed too, quite a long time ago, his original terms were to take everything to the Polish border, in reality he hasn't really taken anything since summer 2022.

I don't support this so called deal, but the reality is, at some point there has to be a deal of some kind, Ukraine can't go on getting bombed the shit out of every night, even if no significant land is being taken, just lives, and nor can russias economy go on being degraded at the rate it is (energy infrastructure).

Are you backing sending troops in ? I very much doubt it, if not though what do you suggest as an alternative ?
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Maybe Europe did all it could to keep Trump as an ally, but his backers had their eyes on Russia as their partner against China long ago. Darker days ahead for the Ukraine now it will all be annexed very soon.
 
The Northern Baptist said:
Russian economy in meltdown in 3,2,1……oh

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No unemployment because a million men are dead or incapacitated due to the war
Retail sales up , because retail prices have spiralled out of control

If things were all sunny and rosie in ruSSia, hitler putin wouldn't even be talking to taco
 
dickie davies said:
No unemployment because a million men are dead or incapacitated due to the war
Retail sales up , because retail prices have spiralled out of control

If things were all sunny and rosie in ruSSia, hitler putin wouldn't even be talking to taco
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I did laugh at the ‘unemployment is virtually non existent’ line…

In fairness to Putin, he’s papered over the cracks brilliantly with his war time economy. However interest rates at 20%, inflation close to half that figure, 1m dead working age men, and the depletion of nearly all their liquid assets in their wealth fund leaves Russia (and more importantly, its citizens), significantly worse off as a direct result of the war.
 
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