Sajid Javid

Ban-jani said:
My point is having a little sympathy. Even if they are economic migrants they’re only doing it because they’re desperate.
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Well said. If you’re trying to cross the Channel in a dinghy in the middle of the night in winter then I imagine your plight must be pretty fucking desperate. These are human beings. Clearly a solution needs to be found, but the lack of empathy from some people is fairly depressing.
 
Ban-jani said:
I agree with most of that but their nationalities haven’t been confirmed, some are claiming to be Iranians but without paperwork it’s hard to tell who’s coming from where.

My point is having a little sympathy. Even if they are economic migrants they’re only doing it because they’re desperate. People calling for the authorities to let them drown or to shoot them are ****s.

The question of why they’re coming is easy, for a better life and to send money to their families. Because we’re lucky enough to live in Britain, doesn’t mean we wouldn’t do the same in their situation.
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Understanding the reasons YES
Shooting people in dinghies is horrific (Unless they are crossing the Mersey) :0

My point about them wanting entrance without telling us who they are is a big one for me, we don't even know simple basic things about them and it's just not good enough, security forces would have to assume that they might have something to hide from the very people they want help from.

Some people on this very thread firmly believe that just because someone has a distant relative in the UK that they should be given access to this country as a given, the very same people who would have signed a petition to stop the big orange one from coming over.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
Understanding the reasons YES
Shooting people in dinghies is horrific (Unless they are crossing the Mersey) :0

My point about them wanting entrance without telling us who they are is a big one for me, we don't even know simple basic things about them and it's just not good enough, security forces would have to assume that they might have something to hide from the very people they want help from.

Some people on this very thread firmly believe that just because someone has a distant relative in the UK that they should be given access to this country as a given, the very same people who would have signed a petition to stop the big orange one from coming over.
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Two wrongs don’t make a right.

There’s a middle ground here of following procedure but appreciating why people are doing it and treating them with dignity is a must.
 
Ban-jani said:
Two wrongs don’t make a right.

There’s a middle ground here of following procedure but appreciating why people are doing it and treating them with dignity is a must.
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To get to that point we have to remove both adversarial sides of the equation and take the middle ground.
There are people who wouldn't turn one person away
There are people who would turn everyone away

Ignore these people and get on with having a common sense consensual agreement between non radicals otherwise we ain't moving anywhere.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
To get to that point we have to remove both adversarial sides of the equation and take the middle ground.
There are people who wouldn't turn one person away
There are people who would turn everyone away

Ignore these people and get on with having a common sense consensual agreement between non radicals otherwise we ain't moving anywhere.
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I certainly agree with that.
 
inbetween said:
It might seem a political scapegoat but it is illegal and people feel that it should be at least discouraged and/or prevented at least to prevent loss of life. We have seen the exact same sentiment in Germany where Merkel encouraged thousands to make the journey and thousands died and she is now barely in government.

Certainly also another question is why should I pay taxes to allow for illegal actions and/or to pay for boats to fly about the channel trying to prevent them?
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We can argue all day what you would/wouldn’t like your taxes to be paid on but it doesn’t work like that - we are humble citizens

Why not put taxes up if it saves people from drowning at sea?
 
Blue Hefner said:
We can argue all day what you would/wouldn’t like your taxes to be paid on but it doesn’t work like that - we are humble citizens

Why not put taxes up if it saves people from drowning at sea?
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I don't know where to start with that reply, if you're serious thank fuck Javid is running the show.
 
Blue Hefner said:
We can argue all day what you would/wouldn’t like your taxes to be paid on but it doesn’t work like that - we are humble citizens

Why not put taxes up if it saves people from drowning at sea?
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Why not put taxes up to alleviate all the suffering in the world?
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Why not put taxes up to alleviate all the suffering in the world?
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What some people on this thread really mean is let everyone in, we don't have to check who they are we should just let them in. This thread is not indicative of what realistic people want of this country, it's slanted.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
What some people on this thread really mean is let everyone in, we don't have to check who they are we should just let them in. This thread is not indicative of what realistic people want of this country, it's slanted.
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Well you'll get that on a forum that is predominantly one side of the political divide. I'd guess a Chelsea forum will see it differently.
 
Blue Hefner said:
We can argue all day what you would/wouldn’t like your taxes to be paid on but it doesn’t work like that - we are humble citizens

Why not put taxes up if it saves people from drowning at sea?
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I'd rather discourage people from taking the risk and instead pay my taxes to help people who don't break the law and who are here now legally.

I am completely for taking migrants who are fleeing countries at war or whatever, we have a human obligation to help them but we don't have an obligation to help those who have basically decided to take matters into their own hands because France isn't for them.

I've always wanted to live in the USA, should I therefore now just row a boat across the Atlantic to get in illegally and then expect the American taxpayer to pay for me? You will say no because I am not a refugee because I came from the UK.... Case closed?
 
Blue Hefner said:
We can argue all day what you would/wouldn’t like your taxes to be paid on but it doesn’t work like that - we are humble citizens

Why not put taxes up if it saves people from drowning at sea?
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Why put people at risk to save the lives of people who have chose to put themselves in danger when they were perfectly safe in France.
 
inbetween said:
I'd rather discourage people from taking the risk and instead pay my taxes to help people who don't break the law and who are here now legally.

I am completely for taking migrants who are fleeing countries at war or whatever, we have a human obligation to help them but we don't have an obligation to help those who have basically decided to take matters into their own hands because France isn't for them.

I've always wanted to live in the USA, should I therefore now just row a boat across the Atlantic to get in illegally and then expect the American taxpayer to pay for me? You will say no because I am not a refugee because I came from the UK.... Case closed?
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In principle, I do not necessarily disagree with this other than just to say that it’s because their chance of working in France and earning anything, aren’t as strong as in Britain.

These people are desperate and they’re only trying to maximise their chances of supporting themselves or their families.

Obviously if they don’t have a visa or right to be here then they shouldn’t be, I just don’t blame them in any way whatsoever.
 
inbetween said:
I've always wanted to live in the USA, should I therefore now just row a boat across the Atlantic to get in illegally and then expect the American taxpayer to pay for me? You will say no because I am not a refugee because I came from the UK.... Case closed?
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Want a lend of a boat?
 
Blue Hefner said:
Why not? The more overseas aid the better - solve the problem at source and we will also have more trading partners and a more stable world
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We've already discussed the negative aspects of increasing taxation to the point it results in a lower tax take.
So more starving and suffering is the result.
No problem with individual choice though, if you want to donate, it's no problem.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
We've already discussed the negative aspects of increasing taxation to the point it results in a lower tax take.
So more starving and suffering is the result.
No problem with individual choice though, if you want to donate, it's no problem.
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For clarity - it was not an entirely serious post
 
Bumped - He’s now Health Secretary.

His main policy seems to be one of not giving a shit about COVID or the NHS.

Am I right or am I missing something?
 
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