sjk2008 said:moomba said:sjk2008 said:There seems to be a misconception that Wenger has tens of millions of £££ to spend every summer and he just plain refuses to. That's bollocks I'm afraid. If it wasn't, then what club would continue to employ a manager on the highest salary in the league, who refuses to spend the money he has, whilst failing to win a single trophy in 8 years? The fact is, the board know the situation Wenger is in and believe he is performing admirably given the resources at hand. Rumour has it that those resources may finally improve considerably in the summer.
Arsenal have had the resources to spend big (or keep the players they had) for several years now. They have well over £100m in the bank, make profits year after year (player sales have contributed to that) and a pretty well placed as far as debt goes.
It's either a board decision not to spend or a Wenger decision. I suspect a bit of both.
I also think a big problem of theres is not so much that they don't pay the biggest wages, but the gap between their top earner and lower earners isn't very high. So they have a pretty high wage bill, but a lot of that is taken up by player that don't really contribute much. So if an when they do spend again a pretty big clearout will be needed.
I'm not denying they don't have money in the bank. However, that's something Kroenke likes to see. I have no doubts that the decisions they've made in recent years fall squarely with him and his people.
Why would Wenger be happy to sell, year on year, their best players and replace them with comparitively average players? It's nonsensical. His quotes about how they cannot seriously expect to challenge for the title when you sell your best players every year backs that up.
I agree with you about their wage structure though. Rather odd to see so many bog standard players getting high wages.
NipHolmes said:The cookie monster said:Them arsenal fans must be wrong uns nip with their wenger out banners :)
They are right to be vexed with him.
Wenger needs to stop toeing the party line and call a spade. Usmanov is Arsenals hope of challenging again and they already have him on board. Instead Usmanov is treated with contempt and fans are brainwashed that us, Chelsea etc are evil and ruining the game whilst they do everything 'organically'.
The sold rights to stadium 'emirates' so that isn't organic really.
They charge higher prices for a ticket than we do and they haven't won fuck all for years.
Their fans are being mugged off to use a cockney phrase and Wenger is allowing his good work to be undone and his legacy is tarnishing by the day.
Wenger treads carefully but his qoutes tell you a lot.
'We cannot sell Nasri and Fabregas and call ourselves a big club'
'Every season I must make a profit'
Basically the boards selling players off for gain and he's not allowed to spend because club pocket revenue raised rather than invest. On that basis it is incredibly naive and unfair to discredit Wenger for the lack of silverware when his hands are tied and the spend budget slashed.
Fuck sakes their top wage is £100k less than what we pay Komapny, Silva, Yaya, Tevez and Aguero.
It's ok though, inners or blinkered can still argue Mancini is better and things are equal though, let's not start off on an equal footing to debate ;)
The cookie monster said:NipHolmes said:The cookie monster said:Them arsenal fans must be wrong uns nip with their wenger out banners :)
They are right to be vexed with him.
Wenger needs to stop toeing the party line and call a spade. Usmanov is Arsenals hope of challenging again and they already have him on board. Instead Usmanov is treated with contempt and fans are brainwashed that us, Chelsea etc are evil and ruining the game whilst they do everything 'organically'.
The sold rights to stadium 'emirates' so that isn't organic really.
They charge higher prices for a ticket than we do and they haven't won fuck all for years.
Their fans are being mugged off to use a cockney phrase and Wenger is allowing his good work to be undone and his legacy is tarnishing by the day.
Wenger treads carefully but his qoutes tell you a lot.
'We cannot sell Nasri and Fabregas and call ourselves a big club'
'Every season I must make a profit'
Basically the boards selling players off for gain and he's not allowed to spend because club pocket revenue raised rather than invest. On that basis it is incredibly naive and unfair to discredit Wenger for the lack of silverware when his hands are tied and the spend budget slashed.
Fuck sakes their top wage is £100k less than what we pay Komapny, Silva, Yaya, Tevez and Aguero.
It's ok though, inners or blinkered can still argue Mancini is better and things are equal though, let's not start off on an equal footing to debate ;)
Like cleavers has said i dont know why you turn every thread into a mancini debate nip
Anyway i just wondered why arsenal fans take banners wanting wenger out,do protest and are constantly bitching about him on every radio station about his tactics.
Granted it has eased off lately as they are climbing the table
The cookie monster said:NipHolmes said:The cookie monster said:Them arsenal fans must be wrong uns nip with their wenger out banners :)
They are right to be vexed with him.
Wenger needs to stop toeing the party line and call a spade. Usmanov is Arsenals hope of challenging again and they already have him on board. Instead Usmanov is treated with contempt and fans are brainwashed that us, Chelsea etc are evil and ruining the game whilst they do everything 'organically'.
The sold rights to stadium 'emirates' so that isn't organic really.
They charge higher prices for a ticket than we do and they haven't won fuck all for years.
Their fans are being mugged off to use a cockney phrase and Wenger is allowing his good work to be undone and his legacy is tarnishing by the day.
Wenger treads carefully but his qoutes tell you a lot.
'We cannot sell Nasri and Fabregas and call ourselves a big club'
'Every season I must make a profit'
Basically the boards selling players off for gain and he's not allowed to spend because club pocket revenue raised rather than invest. On that basis it is incredibly naive and unfair to discredit Wenger for the lack of silverware when his hands are tied and the spend budget slashed.
Fuck sakes their top wage is £100k less than what we pay Komapny, Silva, Yaya, Tevez and Aguero.
It's ok though, inners or blinkered can still argue Mancini is better and things are equal though, let's not start off on an equal footing to debate ;)
Like cleavers has said i dont know why you turn every thread into a mancini debate nip
Anyway i just wondered why arsenal fans take banners wanting wenger out,do protest and are constantly bitching about him on every radio station about his tactics.
Granted it has eased off lately as they are climbing the table
JoeMercer'sWay said:regardless of the fact that Wenger has defined himself as a kiss-arse to the corporates, a man with no morals, a complete corporate suck-up, as well as a manager with a poor eye for a bargain, who rarely finds Arsenal value for money and has one of the poorest attitudes and is a pretty unprofessional and sore loser. Beyond all that his record in Europe is still not good enough even when Arsenal were really good and he's gone over 200 european games without winning a major trophy, far outseeing the top names in European management.
He's not a top class manager and should never be considered for our job.
M11 3FF said:The cookie monster said:NipHolmes said:They are right to be vexed with him.
Wenger needs to stop toeing the party line and call a spade. Usmanov is Arsenals hope of challenging again and they already have him on board. Instead Usmanov is treated with contempt and fans are brainwashed that us, Chelsea etc are evil and ruining the game whilst they do everything 'organically'.
The sold rights to stadium 'emirates' so that isn't organic really.
They charge higher prices for a ticket than we do and they haven't won fuck all for years.
Their fans are being mugged off to use a cockney phrase and Wenger is allowing his good work to be undone and his legacy is tarnishing by the day.
Wenger treads carefully but his qoutes tell you a lot.
'We cannot sell Nasri and Fabregas and call ourselves a big club'
'Every season I must make a profit'
Basically the boards selling players off for gain and he's not allowed to spend because club pocket revenue raised rather than invest. On that basis it is incredibly naive and unfair to discredit Wenger for the lack of silverware when his hands are tied and the spend budget slashed.
Fuck sakes their top wage is £100k less than what we pay Komapny, Silva, Yaya, Tevez and Aguero.
It's ok though, inners or blinkered can still argue Mancini is better and things are equal though, let's not start off on an equal footing to debate ;)
Like cleavers has said i dont know why you turn every thread into a mancini debate nip
Anyway i just wondered why arsenal fans take banners wanting wenger out,do protest and are constantly bitching about him on every radio station about his tactics.
Granted it has eased off lately as they are climbing the table
Not all Arsenal fans are in that belief TCM
Some fans look at Wenger and think he's run his course for the club and they're in need of a fresh face and change.
There's others however that appreciate what Wenger has done for the club and feel loyalty towards him, he did build that stadium himself nigh on with all the players he bought and sold on for the good of the club.
What i'm trying to say is with Arsenal fans it's a mix bag, they don't all want his head?
(Sounds familiar eh?)
The cookie monster said:M11 3FF said:The cookie monster said:Like cleavers has said i dont know why you turn every thread into a mancini debate nip
Anyway i just wondered why arsenal fans take banners wanting wenger out,do protest and are constantly bitching about him on every radio station about his tactics.
Granted it has eased off lately as they are climbing the table
Not all Arsenal fans are in that belief TCM
Some fans look at Wenger and think he's run his course for the club and they're in need of a fresh face and change.
There's others however that appreciate what Wenger has done for the club and feel loyalty towards him, he did build that stadium himself nigh on with all the players he bought and sold on for the good of the club.
What i'm trying to say is with Arsenal fans it's a mix bag, they don't all want his head?
(Sounds familiar eh?)
I was getting round to that mate
The Mancini outers on here see wenger as doing a good job,yet a lot(not all true) of arsenals fans don't..
And yes we are having a debate on mancini,they have taken wenger to another level though wanting him gone
JoeMercer'sWay said:regardless of the fact that Wenger has defined himself as a kiss-arse to the corporates, a man with no morals, a complete corporate suck-up, as well as a manager with a poor eye for a bargain, who rarely finds Arsenal value for money and has one of the poorest attitudes and is a pretty unprofessional and sore loser. Beyond all that his record in Europe is still not good enough even when Arsenal were really good and he's gone over 200 european games without winning a major trophy, far outseeing the top names in European management.
He's not a top class manager and should never be considered for our job.
sjk2008 said:JoeMercer'sWay said:regardless of the fact that Wenger has defined himself as a kiss-arse to the corporates, a man with no morals, a complete corporate suck-up, as well as a manager with a poor eye for a bargain, who rarely finds Arsenal value for money and has one of the poorest attitudes and is a pretty unprofessional and sore loser. Beyond all that his record in Europe is still not good enough even when Arsenal were really good and he's gone over 200 european games without winning a major trophy, far outseeing the top names in European management.
He's not a top class manager and should never be considered for our job.
Is this a WUM, JMW?
You’re normally a good poster when it comes to this, but some of that post is complete drivel.
Henry (Bought for 6m)
Vieira (Bought for 3.5m, sold for 18m)
Anelka (Bought for 500k, sold for 22m)
Petit (Bought for 2.5m, sold for 7m)
Overmars (Bought for 5.5m, sold for 25m)
Ljungberg (Bought for 3m, released)
Campbell (Free transfer)
Kolo Toure (Bought for 16k, sold for 16m)
Gilberto Silva (Bought for 4.5m, sold for 1m)
Fabregas (Free transfer, sold for 30m)
RVP (Bought for 3m, sold for 20m)
Adebayor (Bought for 7m, sold for 25m)
That list above tells me that he’s always had an eye for a bargain. When you take into account the fees these players were sold for and the fact that a lot of them were past their peaks when he did sell them tells me he knows what he can get from a player and when they’ve given what they could and can’t offer much more.
It’s a lot harder these days to grab yourselves a bargain. You’ll get the odd exception of a Kompany and a Nastasic but the fact is, it was his transfer policy and eye for a player that won Arsenal the trophies they did and was the main reason for them having the finances to spearhead a move to the Emirates Stadium.
Yes, he’s not won anything for a fairly long time, but when you’re hampered by a board with such a lack of immediate ambition, it’s quite difficult.
Wenger is a top class manager, IMO. I genuinely believe that if he had the squads of City, Madrid or Bayern, even Chelsea, along with their respective finances and the boards that are willing to back him, he’d win plenty of trophies with the lot.
Only a few years ago, whilst he was potless for 4 years and just before Mourinho took the Madrid job, Wenger was in the running for that job. Nobody is coveted for such a job if they’re not classed as a top class manager.
As for examples of being unprofessional and a sore loser. Stick Ferguson, Mourinho, Benitez and Mancini in those categories too.
The most credible stick to beat Wenger with is the fact that he hasn't won the CL. It's only because of Barcelona that him or indeed Ferguson hasn't wone more CL medals.
sjk2008 said:JoeMercer'sWay said:regardless of the fact that Wenger has defined himself as a kiss-arse to the corporates, a man with no morals, a complete corporate suck-up, as well as a manager with a poor eye for a bargain, who rarely finds Arsenal value for money and has one of the poorest attitudes and is a pretty unprofessional and sore loser. Beyond all that his record in Europe is still not good enough even when Arsenal were really good and he's gone over 200 european games without winning a major trophy, far outseeing the top names in European management.
He's not a top class manager and should never be considered for our job.
Is this a WUM, JMW?
You’re normally a good poster when it comes to this, but some of that post is complete drivel.
Henry (Bought for 6m)
Vieira (Bought for 3.5m, sold for 18m)
Anelka (Bought for 500k, sold for 22m)
Petit (Bought for 2.5m, sold for 7m)
Overmars (Bought for 5.5m, sold for 25m)
Ljungberg (Bought for 3m, released)
Campbell (Free transfer)
Kolo Toure (Bought for 16k, sold for 16m)
Gilberto Silva (Bought for 4.5m, sold for 1m)
Fabregas (Free transfer, sold for 30m)
RVP (Bought for 3m, sold for 20m)
Adebayor (Bought for 7m, sold for 25m)
That list above tells me that he’s always had an eye for a bargain. When you take into account the fees these players were sold for and the fact that a lot of them were past their peaks when he did sell them tells me he knows what he can get from a player and when they’ve given what they could and can’t offer much more.
It’s a lot harder these days to grab yourselves a bargain. You’ll get the odd exception of a Kompany and a Nastasic but the fact is, it was his transfer policy and eye for a player that won Arsenal the trophies they did and was the main reason for them having the finances to spearhead a move to the Emirates Stadium.
Yes, he’s not won anything for a fairly long time, but when you’re hampered by a board with such a lack of immediate ambition, it’s quite difficult.
Wenger is a top class manager, IMO. I genuinely believe that if he had the squads of City, Madrid or Bayern, even Chelsea, along with their respective finances and the boards that are willing to back him, he’d win plenty of trophies with the lot.
Only a few years ago, whilst he was potless for 4 years and just before Mourinho took the Madrid job, Wenger was in the running for that job. Nobody is coveted for such a job if they’re not classed as a top class manager.
As for examples of being unprofessional and a sore loser. Stick Ferguson, Mourinho, Benitez and Mancini in those categories too.
The most credible stick to beat Wenger with is the fact that he hasn't won the CL. It's only because of Barcelona that him or indeed Ferguson hasn't wone more CL medals.
or neither of course ;-)Didsbury Dave said:It means quite simply that one, or both, of them are off in the summer.BoyBlue_1985 said:Sorry bobster, I have no problem with what he has said but the press are manipulating nothing. he actually said this stuffbobmcfc said:The press are manipulating a situation yet again ! seriously, don't fall for it
JoeMercer'sWay said:sjk2008 said:JoeMercer'sWay said:regardless of the fact that Wenger has defined himself as a kiss-arse to the corporates, a man with no morals, a complete corporate suck-up, as well as a manager with a poor eye for a bargain, who rarely finds Arsenal value for money and has one of the poorest attitudes and is a pretty unprofessional and sore loser. Beyond all that his record in Europe is still not good enough even when Arsenal were really good and he's gone over 200 european games without winning a major trophy, far outseeing the top names in European management.
He's not a top class manager and should never be considered for our job.
Is this a WUM, JMW?
You’re normally a good poster when it comes to this, but some of that post is complete drivel.
Henry (Bought for 6m)
Vieira (Bought for 3.5m, sold for 18m)
Anelka (Bought for 500k, sold for 22m)
Petit (Bought for 2.5m, sold for 7m)
Overmars (Bought for 5.5m, sold for 25m)
Ljungberg (Bought for 3m, released)
Campbell (Free transfer)
Kolo Toure (Bought for 16k, sold for 16m)
Gilberto Silva (Bought for 4.5m, sold for 1m)
Fabregas (Free transfer, sold for 30m)
RVP (Bought for 3m, sold for 20m)
Adebayor (Bought for 7m, sold for 25m)
That list above tells me that he’s always had an eye for a bargain. When you take into account the fees these players were sold for and the fact that a lot of them were past their peaks when he did sell them tells me he knows what he can get from a player and when they’ve given what they could and can’t offer much more.
It’s a lot harder these days to grab yourselves a bargain. You’ll get the odd exception of a Kompany and a Nastasic but the fact is, it was his transfer policy and eye for a player that won Arsenal the trophies they did and was the main reason for them having the finances to spearhead a move to the Emirates Stadium.
Yes, he’s not won anything for a fairly long time, but when you’re hampered by a board with such a lack of immediate ambition, it’s quite difficult.
Wenger is a top class manager, IMO. I genuinely believe that if he had the squads of City, Madrid or Bayern, even Chelsea, along with their respective finances and the boards that are willing to back him, he’d win plenty of trophies with the lot.
Only a few years ago, whilst he was potless for 4 years and just before Mourinho took the Madrid job, Wenger was in the running for that job. Nobody is coveted for such a job if they’re not classed as a top class manager.
As for examples of being unprofessional and a sore loser. Stick Ferguson, Mourinho, Benitez and Mancini in those categories too.
The most credible stick to beat Wenger with is the fact that he hasn't won the CL. It's only because of Barcelona that him or indeed Ferguson hasn't wone more CL medals.
fair enough for 10 years ago, but how many of those were in the last 6/7 years?
He's lost his touch, lost his marbles a bit and has lost his ability to win trophies and spot bargains in the market.
And to be honest, other teams have gone on and won trophies with far less at their disposal than Arsenal and it's not like he's not had chances, fuck-ups are the Arsenal way and it's now ingrained in his psyche and the team's.
He was top class 10 years ago but ever since he's lost it, I'm sorry but until he proves otherwise he is not top class.
sjk2008 said:JoeMercer'sWay said:sjk2008 said:Is this a WUM, JMW?
You’re normally a good poster when it comes to this, but some of that post is complete drivel.
Henry (Bought for 6m)
Vieira (Bought for 3.5m, sold for 18m)
Anelka (Bought for 500k, sold for 22m)
Petit (Bought for 2.5m, sold for 7m)
Overmars (Bought for 5.5m, sold for 25m)
Ljungberg (Bought for 3m, released)
Campbell (Free transfer)
Kolo Toure (Bought for 16k, sold for 16m)
Gilberto Silva (Bought for 4.5m, sold for 1m)
Fabregas (Free transfer, sold for 30m)
RVP (Bought for 3m, sold for 20m)
Adebayor (Bought for 7m, sold for 25m)
That list above tells me that he’s always had an eye for a bargain. When you take into account the fees these players were sold for and the fact that a lot of them were past their peaks when he did sell them tells me he knows what he can get from a player and when they’ve given what they could and can’t offer much more.
It’s a lot harder these days to grab yourselves a bargain. You’ll get the odd exception of a Kompany and a Nastasic but the fact is, it was his transfer policy and eye for a player that won Arsenal the trophies they did and was the main reason for them having the finances to spearhead a move to the Emirates Stadium.
Yes, he’s not won anything for a fairly long time, but when you’re hampered by a board with such a lack of immediate ambition, it’s quite difficult.
Wenger is a top class manager, IMO. I genuinely believe that if he had the squads of City, Madrid or Bayern, even Chelsea, along with their respective finances and the boards that are willing to back him, he’d win plenty of trophies with the lot.
Only a few years ago, whilst he was potless for 4 years and just before Mourinho took the Madrid job, Wenger was in the running for that job. Nobody is coveted for such a job if they’re not classed as a top class manager.
As for examples of being unprofessional and a sore loser. Stick Ferguson, Mourinho, Benitez and Mancini in those categories too.
The most credible stick to beat Wenger with is the fact that he hasn't won the CL. It's only because of Barcelona that him or indeed Ferguson hasn't wone more CL medals.
fair enough for 10 years ago, but how many of those were in the last 6/7 years?
He's lost his touch, lost his marbles a bit and has lost his ability to win trophies and spot bargains in the market.
And to be honest, other teams have gone on and won trophies with far less at their disposal than Arsenal and it's not like he's not had chances, fuck-ups are the Arsenal way and it's now ingrained in his psyche and the team's.
He was top class 10 years ago but ever since he's lost it, I'm sorry but until he proves otherwise he is not top class.
You can say he's lost his touch but as I've said, other people will revert you to the situation he has to deal with from above. Nowadays, you can't go out and buy a Vieira, Overmars or Henry for less than £15m on total. It'd cost you that for one of them in today's market. Unfortunately for him, he's not given the finances to either fund such transfers or when he does, he isnt able to hand out the wages which will attract the more stella names and, as such, ends up with Arteta, Mertersacker or Gervinho, aka panic buys.
Do you think if he was in charge of either City, Real, Barca, Bayern or Chelsea, with the backing of each of those respective boards, he'd win absolutely nothing? If not, then you're comparing apples with oranges.
On the flipside, if Mancini was at Arsenal, and had to work within the situation created by Kroenke and his men, do you believe Mancini would win league titles and FA cups? I'm not so sure.
JoeMercer'sWay said:sjk2008 said:JoeMercer'sWay said:fair enough for 10 years ago, but how many of those were in the last 6/7 years?
He's lost his touch, lost his marbles a bit and has lost his ability to win trophies and spot bargains in the market.
And to be honest, other teams have gone on and won trophies with far less at their disposal than Arsenal and it's not like he's not had chances, fuck-ups are the Arsenal way and it's now ingrained in his psyche and the team's.
He was top class 10 years ago but ever since he's lost it, I'm sorry but until he proves otherwise he is not top class.
You can say he's lost his touch but as I've said, other people will revert you to the situation he has to deal with from above. Nowadays, you can't go out and buy a Vieira, Overmars or Henry for less than £15m on total. It'd cost you that for one of them in today's market. Unfortunately for him, he's not given the finances to either fund such transfers or when he does, he isnt able to hand out the wages which will attract the more stella names and, as such, ends up with Arteta, Mertersacker or Gervinho, aka panic buys.
Do you think if he was in charge of either City, Real, Barca, Bayern or Chelsea, with the backing of each of those respective boards, he'd win absolutely nothing? If not, then you're comparing apples with oranges.
On the flipside, if Mancini was at Arsenal, and had to work within the situation created by Kroenke and his men, do you believe Mancini would win league titles and FA cups? I'm not so sure.
I don't agree, I think as Newcastle prove if you scout well enough there is value in the market, especially in territories where Wenger used to have the advantage.
Panic buys are like we proved last season the result of a poorly thought out transfer policy and whilst the board have a huge influence by now Wenger would know who he's inevitably going to lose and should have a contingency, he doesn't. He buys poorly or averagely on the whole.
Mancini won cups on tight budgets in Italy so I think he'd do a fair job, you have to question the mentality of Wenger and his modern Arsenal when they bottle Carling Cup finals to Birmingham and the like, there's a genuine issue there.
Whether he'd win trophies or not elsewhere is a different matter and one that cannot be proven without him doing so obviously. The fact remains that once the backline previous managers had built for him retired and his failure to replace the spine of his team properly in the early mid noughties started to take place we then see a whole host of flaws seeping through.
What we see is a manager who had a top class run but has slowly let his good work slip into mediocrity. That tells me that he's either been there too long, has lost his way and needs a fresh start and motivation to prove how good he is or he;s sold himself up the creek without a paddle in order to have a comfortable time of it. To me it's more the latter than the former and that's the wrong mentality for a top class manager and therefore I wouldn't consider replacing Mancini with him. If he had ambition he'd have done what many of his star players did and walked out of Arsenal or shown some backbone and stood up to the board, the fact he didn't sends alarm bells and along with everything I mentioned he to me is a massive gamble and a manager you would have picked 6/7 years ago, not now, he's let it ebb too long and there's other managers who set about challenging themselves everyday and are ambitious and are proving themselves. They have the right attitude and that is why they succeed whilst Wenger's legacy gets gradually turned to mush.
sjk2008 said:On the flipside, if Mancini was at Arsenal, and had to work within the situation created by Kroenke and his men, do you believe Mancini would win league titles and FA cups? I'm not so sure.
NipHolmes said:JoeMercer'sWay said:sjk2008 said:You can say he's lost his touch but as I've said, other people will revert you to the situation he has to deal with from above. Nowadays, you can't go out and buy a Vieira, Overmars or Henry for less than £15m on total. It'd cost you that for one of them in today's market. Unfortunately for him, he's not given the finances to either fund such transfers or when he does, he isnt able to hand out the wages which will attract the more stella names and, as such, ends up with Arteta, Mertersacker or Gervinho, aka panic buys.
Do you think if he was in charge of either City, Real, Barca, Bayern or Chelsea, with the backing of each of those respective boards, he'd win absolutely nothing? If not, then you're comparing apples with oranges.
On the flipside, if Mancini was at Arsenal, and had to work within the situation created by Kroenke and his men, do you believe Mancini would win league titles and FA cups? I'm not so sure.
I don't agree, I think as Newcastle prove if you scout well enough there is value in the market, especially in territories where Wenger used to have the advantage.
Panic buys are like we proved last season the result of a poorly thought out transfer policy and whilst the board have a huge influence by now Wenger would know who he's inevitably going to lose and should have a contingency, he doesn't. He buys poorly or averagely on the whole.
Mancini won cups on tight budgets in Italy so I think he'd do a fair job, you have to question the mentality of Wenger and his modern Arsenal when they bottle Carling Cup finals to Birmingham and the like, there's a genuine issue there.
Whether he'd win trophies or not elsewhere is a different matter and one that cannot be proven without him doing so obviously. The fact remains that once the backline previous managers had built for him retired and his failure to replace the spine of his team properly in the early mid noughties started to take place we then see a whole host of flaws seeping through.
What we see is a manager who had a top class run but has slowly let his good work slip into mediocrity. That tells me that he's either been there too long, has lost his way and needs a fresh start and motivation to prove how good he is or he;s sold himself up the creek without a paddle in order to have a comfortable time of it. To me it's more the latter than the former and that's the wrong mentality for a top class manager and therefore I wouldn't consider replacing Mancini with him. If he had ambition he'd have done what many of his star players did and walked out of Arsenal or shown some backbone and stood up to the board, the fact he didn't sends alarm bells and along with everything I mentioned he to me is a massive gamble and a manager you would have picked 6/7 years ago, not now, he's let it ebb too long and there's other managers who set about challenging themselves everyday and are ambitious and are proving themselves. They have the right attitude and that is why they succeed whilst Wenger's legacy gets gradually turned to mush.
I disagree because even though there's value in the French league, no sooner as he buys a player and they look a gem i.e Nasri then they'll be snapped up by another club because that's what Kroenke is about, profit first.
Arsenal have bought Walcott and AOC, both are very good players and both will be sold down the line. Jenkinson was a snip at £1million too. Wenger is now looking at young English players due to quota.
Mancini may have won the leagues in Italy but it's the equivalent of us winning them with United and Chelsea not in race for them. Rather hollow achievements in that context. That's not being harsh on Bobby but actually reality. Juventus went from giant of Europe with great squad to a championship team.
Arsenal are reaping what they've sewn, years of little investment has reduced them to consistent also rans.
JoeMercer'sWay said:sjk2008 said:JoeMercer'sWay said:fair enough for 10 years ago, but how many of those were in the last 6/7 years?
He's lost his touch, lost his marbles a bit and has lost his ability to win trophies and spot bargains in the market.
And to be honest, other teams have gone on and won trophies with far less at their disposal than Arsenal and it's not like he's not had chances, fuck-ups are the Arsenal way and it's now ingrained in his psyche and the team's.
He was top class 10 years ago but ever since he's lost it, I'm sorry but until he proves otherwise he is not top class.
You can say he's lost his touch but as I've said, other people will revert you to the situation he has to deal with from above. Nowadays, you can't go out and buy a Vieira, Overmars or Henry for less than £15m on total. It'd cost you that for one of them in today's market. Unfortunately for him, he's not given the finances to either fund such transfers or when he does, he isnt able to hand out the wages which will attract the more stella names and, as such, ends up with Arteta, Mertersacker or Gervinho, aka panic buys.
Do you think if he was in charge of either City, Real, Barca, Bayern or Chelsea, with the backing of each of those respective boards, he'd win absolutely nothing? If not, then you're comparing apples with oranges.
On the flipside, if Mancini was at Arsenal, and had to work within the situation created by Kroenke and his men, do you believe Mancini would win league titles and FA cups? I'm not so sure.
I don't agree, I think as Newcastle prove if you scout well enough there is value in the market, especially in territories where Wenger used to have the advantage.
Panic buys are like we proved last season the result of a poorly thought out transfer policy and whilst the board have a huge influence by now Wenger would know who he's inevitably going to lose and should have a contingency, he doesn't. He buys poorly or averagely on the whole.
Mancini won cups on tight budgets in Italy so I think he'd do a fair job, you have to question the mentality of Wenger and his modern Arsenal when they bottle Carling Cup finals to Birmingham and the like, there's a genuine issue there.
Whether he'd win trophies or not elsewhere is a different matter and one that cannot be proven without him doing so obviously. The fact remains that once the backline previous managers had built for him retired and his failure to replace the spine of his team properly in the early mid noughties started to take place we then see a whole host of flaws seeping through.
What we see is a manager who had a top class run but has slowly let his good work slip into mediocrity. That tells me that he's either been there too long, has lost his way and needs a fresh start and motivation to prove how good he is or he;s sold himself up the creek without a paddle in order to have a comfortable time of it. To me it's more the latter than the former and that's the wrong mentality for a top class manager and therefore I wouldn't consider replacing Mancini with him. If he had ambition he'd have done what many of his star players did and walked out of Arsenal or shown some backbone and stood up to the board, the fact he didn't sends alarm bells and along with everything I mentioned he to me is a massive gamble and a manager you would have picked 6/7 years ago, not now, he's let it ebb too long and there's other managers who set about challenging themselves everyday and are ambitious and are proving themselves. They have the right attitude and that is why they succeed whilst Wenger's legacy gets gradually turned to mush.