Scottish independence

[Len Rum]

You're missing the point. Take Scotland's votes out of every election and the outcome remains the same. Scotland's votes count for feck all.

If Scotland want Labour but England want Tory - it's Tory. If Scotland want Tory (haha) but England want Labour it's Labour.

It's not about having the government each individual wants but a country with around 5 million people is large enough to have a parliament which makes decisions for itself. And before you point to Holyrood already being in existence it has little or no control over how a budget is spent north of the border. London decides that for us, yippee!

The needs of Scottish people are not the same as the needs of people from London or the south east.

Ayrshire, how do you think we feel in the rest of England outside of London?
Maybe if you get independence we could join you in a new country 'Angland' (based on the old anglo saxon provinces )?
Greater Londinium could then split off as a separate kingdom.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

You're missing the point. Take Scotland's votes out of every election and the outcome remains the same. Scotland's votes count for feck all.

If Scotland want Labour but England want Tory - it's Tory. If Scotland want Tory (haha) but England want Labour it's Labour.

It's not about having the government each individual wants but a country with around 5 million people is large enough to have a parliament which makes decisions for itself. And before you point to Holyrood already being in existence it has little or no control over how a budget is spent north of the border. London decides that for us, yippee!

The needs of Scottish people are not the same as the needs of people from London or the south east.

Sorry mate that's how democracy go's if the majority of those who bother to vote,go for one particular political party chances are they get elected to govern. I don't particularly like the Tories but they have been elected what should I do declare my house independent of Westminster because my vote didn't count. Been working in Scotland for last 4 weeks,first week in Edinburgh the majority were "proud to be Scots delighted to be united" last 3 weeks in Fife and Perthshire more split with young kids poppin Braveheart in the DVD and voting with the heart, the majority over 40 say would prefer to stay as part of a United Kingdom. If and when the Yes vote lose will you're vote have counted for nothing or will your move to a smaller enclave.
P.S. beautiful country by the way.

I give up, I really do.

On your closing points. Recent polls at 53% no, 47% yes. I don't think the end result will be much closer than that.

If interested, on my local club (Kilmarnock's) forum the independence poll is currently at:

No - 23 (17.04%)
Yes - 104 (77.04%)
Undecided - 8 (5.92%)

Most other football fans forum's are around the same, 70%-80% mark for the yes, including Celtic.

Sevco at 95% no and Ross County are also slightly favouring the No vote the last I looked.

Just an insight to how every day football fans see it north of the border. Those results don't matter of course.

 

[i kne albert davy]

You're missing the point. Take Scotland's votes out of every election and the outcome remains the same. Scotland's votes count for feck all.

If Scotland want Labour but England want Tory - it's Tory. If Scotland want Tory (haha) but England want Labour it's Labour.

It's not about having the government each individual wants but a country with around 5 million people is large enough to have a parliament which makes decisions for itself. And before you point to Holyrood already being in existence it has little or no control over how a budget is spent north of the border. London decides that for us, yippee!

The needs of Scottish people are not the same as the needs of people from London or the south east.

Roll on a week on Thursday!

And the majority of English people are also saying it.
I genuinely do hope that you get your wish and have independence.
I honestly think it is better for all concerned.
Without trying to clever or smart if the vote for independence was also given to the English it would
be a landslide 'Yes' vote. So lets just get on with it and do what is needed to be done.

A landslide yes? and who would England become independent from I have no petty hatred of people who live in Scotland a rivalry yes like the one between Lancashire and Yorkshire should we divide the nation into small pieces constantly bickering again, how backward thinking is that.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

You're missing the point. Take Scotland's votes out of every election and the outcome remains the same. Scotland's votes count for feck all.

If Scotland want Labour but England want Tory - it's Tory. If Scotland want Tory (haha) but England want Labour it's Labour.

It's not about having the government each individual wants but a country with around 5 million people is large enough to have a parliament which makes decisions for itself. And before you point to Holyrood already being in existence it has little or no control over how a budget is spent north of the border. London decides that for us, yippee!

The needs of Scottish people are not the same as the needs of people from London or the south east.

Ayrshire, how do you think we feel in the rest of England outside of London?
Maybe if you get independence we could join you in a new country 'Angland' (based on the old anglo saxon provinces )?
Greater Londinium could then split off as a separate kingdom.

Completely agree with this. The north of England get shafted as much as us. This was one of the reasons I was originally in the 'no' camp. But then there's very little we in Scotland can do about that, it's up to your own politicians to grow a spine and demand more. As I've said, the more I thought about it the more I feel in the event of a yes vote the people of northern England could be inspired to fight for more equality.

 

[i kne albert davy]

You're missing the point. Take Scotland's votes out of every election and the outcome remains the same. Scotland's votes count for feck all.

If Scotland want Labour but England want Tory - it's Tory. If Scotland want Tory (haha) but England want Labour it's Labour.

It's not about having the government each individual wants but a country with around 5 million people is large enough to have a parliament which makes decisions for itself. And before you point to Holyrood already being in existence it has little or no control over how a budget is spent north of the border. London decides that for us, yippee!

The needs of Scottish people are not the same as the needs of people from London or the south east.

Sorry mate that's how democracy go's if the majority of those who bother to vote,go for one particular political party chances are they get elected to govern. I don't particularly like the Tories but they have been elected what should I do declare my house independent of Westminster because my vote didn't count. Been working in Scotland for last 4 weeks,first week in Edinburgh the majority were "proud to be Scots delighted to be united" last 3 weeks in Fife and Perthshire more split with young kids poppin Braveheart in the DVD and voting with the heart, the majority over 40 say would prefer to stay as part of a United Kingdom. If and when the Yes vote lose will you're vote have counted for nothing or will your move to a smaller enclave.
P.S. beautiful country by the way.

I give up, I really do.

On your closing points. Recent polls at 53% no, 47% yes. I don't think the end result will be much closer than that.

If interested, on my local club (Kilmarnock's) forum the independence poll is currently at:

No - 23 (17.04%)
Yes - 104 (77.04%)
Undecided - 8 (5.92%)

Most other football fans forum's are around the same, 70%-80% mark for the yes, including Celtic.

Sevco at 95% no and Ross County are also slightly favouring the No vote the last I looked.

Just an insight to how every day football fans see it north of the border. Those results don't matter of course.

I know how close it is but Scotlands future won't be decided by young lads at football match's everyone gets a vote. only surprise is Mr Salmond didn't give 4 year olds the vote and then stood at the school gates with a bag of sweets.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

TGR - this one's just for you...

The Future of England Survey found that people south of the border are overwhelmingly against Scotland leaving the UK, with 59 per cent saying they would like the Union to stay intact and only 19 per cent favouring separation.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

TGR - this one's just for you...

The Future of England Survey found that people south of the border are overwhelmingly against Scotland leaving the UK, with 59 per cent saying they would like the Union to stay intact and only 19 per cent favouring separation.

This is very true, but we've got no say in it, so what we think is irrelevant. Those of us in the minority down here are relying on you up there to grant our wishes ;)

 

[ayrshire_blue]

TGR - this one's just for you...

The Future of England Survey found that people south of the border are overwhelmingly against Scotland leaving the UK, with 59 per cent saying they would like the Union to stay intact and only 19 per cent favouring separation.

This is very true, but we've got no say in it, so what we think is irrelevant. Those of us in the minority down here are relying on you up there to grant our wishes ;)

Haha, fair enough mate. Sadly I think you'll be dissappointed, as will I.

The yes campaign certainly have the momentum, but it's came a bit late imo. Traditional Labour voters should have been the target voters from the yes campaign from the very start, not the last month or two.

 

[Len Rum]

TGR - this one's just for you...

The Future of England Survey found that people south of the border are overwhelmingly against Scotland leaving the UK, with 59 per cent saying they would like the Union to stay intact and only 19 per cent favouring separation.

That won't impress TGR mate.
He likes his idea of Little England. So much so he'd probably give you Northumberland, Cleveland and Redcar and that part of Cumbria to the west and north of the Lakes.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

TGR - this one's just for you...

The Future of England Survey found that people south of the border are overwhelmingly against Scotland leaving the UK, with 59 per cent saying they would like the Union to stay intact and only 19 per cent favouring separation.

This is very true, but we've got no say in it, so what we think is irrelevant. Those of us in the minority down here are relying on you up there to grant our wishes ;)

Haha, fair enough mate. Sadly I think you'll be dissappointed, as will I.

The yes campaign certainly have the momentum, but it's came a bit late imo. Traditional Labour voters should have been the target voters from the yes campaign from the very start, not the last month or two.

There is still hope for the Yes Vote and it will be a pretty close run thing!

I will keep my fingers crossed that it's independence and we can stop subsidising Scotland and regenerate the building industry in the North of England by rebuilding Hadrian's Wall to a Great Wall of China scale.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

TGR - this one's just for you...

The Future of England Survey found that people south of the border are overwhelmingly against Scotland leaving the UK, with 59 per cent saying they would like the Union to stay intact and only 19 per cent favouring separation.

This is very true, but we've got no say in it, so what we think is irrelevant. Those of us in the minority down here are relying on you up there to grant our wishes ;)

Haha, fair enough mate. Sadly I think you'll be dissappointed, as will I.

The yes campaign certainly have the momentum, but it's came a bit late imo. Traditional Labour voters should have been the target voters from the yes campaign from the very start, not the last month or two.

Seriously, I and others have no hatred for The Scots, but we have become bemused by this wish to separate this small Island by what we see as a belligerent desire to secede by some up there, as if the past 300 odd years mean jack-shit. It therefore engenders a ''well fuck off then'' attitude which is sad, but we didn't start it.
Good luck mate, you can still support this ENGLISH footy team we all love, and we promise you'll not be banged up in a holding centre for asylum seekers when you venture southward ;)

 

[TGR]

TGR - this one's just for you...

The Future of England Survey found that people south of the border are overwhelmingly against Scotland leaving the UK, with 59 per cent saying they would like the Union to stay intact and only 19 per cent favouring separation.

ayrshire blue.
Please just don't believe it.

My very bestie pal who I have known for over 30 years is from Glasgow and believe you me we have debated this one to the death
(he is voting 'Yes' by the way). He quoted me similar figures and told me that this is the general feeling and sentiment in Scotland regarding the
take of the English people.

I can only take things as I find them and I can honestly tell you it just not correct. I am a pretty normal guy, with a pretty normal job
and a decent cross section of friends and acquaintances from all backgrounds and social strata.
Overwhelmingly (approx 7 out of 10) of the people who I have discussed this with (and it is more than a fair few) want the Scottish to win the vote and gain independence.
My take as to why is this;
You guys are bit like the French.
As individuals you are great people. We like you - a lot and we get on together more than well with you. However as a nation over recent years you have just become a pain in the arse and it has got to the stage where people are sick and tired of your constant whinging and as a nation your constant anti English stance which I suspect as an individual you may well not agree with - but as a collective nation it is now explicit.
The general concensus down here is that Westminster continues to fund you 'free everything' policy (University fees, prescriptions etc, etc) and regardless of this being correct or not that is the general feeling - and you take out of the system more than you put in and you are still not happy. Therefore the best thing you can do is vote 'Yes' and go your own way. You have had enough of the English and the English have most certainly (as a nation) has had enough of the Scottish. So as I say lets get it on and do what we need to do.
Can Scotland survive economically as an individual and seperate country? Of course it can.
Will it be better of economically for doing so? I genuinely think not.
I don't think an Independent Scotland will the survive the next half decent recession (and its coming) and then what?
Independence is just that - independence. No bail outs, no hand outs or cash from the Sassenachs to save the day for you,
your collective nation and your 'little scotlander' and hero leader Alex Salmond are on your own.
Good luck and I really do mean that. I really do think independence is the best option for all concerned and the sooner the better.
Bring it on.

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

I'm English and my take on all this is that the union is beneficial to all 4 nations within it.
If Scotland secedes, which is obviously its right, then all 4 are diminished. I feel that the biggest loser will be Scotland itself.
I expect that on the day the majority will vote NO.

I do think that this whole process has damaged the union though and the perception "down here" rightly or wrongly is that
it is driven by anti English feelings, in particular anti-London feelings. I hope that the vote is resoundingly NO and that
few additional powers are granted to Edinburgh. This issue can then be put to bed for a generation or two.
A close vote followed by "devo max" will cause a lot of ill feeling "down here" which I feel will inevitably lead to a break up
of the union over time which will, most likely, be triggered by England and not Scotland.

 

[JackFlash74]

<a class="postlink" href="https://mobile.twitter.com/AlanRoden/status/508315555385065473" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://mobile.twitter.com/AlanRoden/st ... 5385065473</a>

First poll showing Yes lead supposed to be published in Sunday Times. A bit like City last season. Just need to be top at the end ;)

 

[Gabriel]

Think the Observer might also have a story about offering a Federal proposal.

 

[Len Rum]

Oh England my Lionheart.

 

[JackFlash74]

Think the Observer might also have a story about offering a Federal proposal.

Every unionist party fought tooth and nail to keep Devo Max off the ballot paper as well. Must think we're zipped up the back.

Sunday Times front page. The Queen ain't happy....aww bless.

<a class="postlink" href="https://mobile.twitter.com/thesundaytimes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://mobile.twitter.com/thesundaytimes</a>

 

[Len Rum]

Republican Scotland?
Alternative Ulster?

 

[Len Rum]

What next? If Yes
Cameron out?
Ed out?
Tories in in England?
Queen out in Scotland?
No more British nukes as Scots dismantle Rosyth by end 2015?
Meltdown in £ and stock market?
As long as City win the league ( Champions or Prem), I don't care.

 

[Paladin]

A friend of mine is actively supporting a 'No' vote, and posting lots of supporting propaganda on Facebook. The brother of his stepmother favours Alex Salmond and is a big financial backer of the SNP.

I am a Norwegian who has been living in the UK for ten years and I understand the SNP looks at Norway as an example of how Scotland will be after independence. I have a number of friends in Scotland, love a good whisky and think the Scottish Highlands rival the beauty of my native country.

However, when pro-independence Scots look to Norway as a role model it’s obvious that they only see what they want to see and largely ignore the facts. It took us a long time to accumulate the wealth we now enjoy, and it wasn’t just a result of oil. Remember also that Norway voted on its independence in 1814, and the financial depression in the years that followed was the worst on record.

Our GDP per capita was consistently lower than Sweden, Denmark and indeed the United Kingdom every year since records began in the early 1800s until 1974. The few things that kept us going were unity, national pride and stupidity.

If Scots are willing to go through decades of hardship in order to build their own country, then fine, but no-one should assume that independence is a silver bullet that will automatically transform Scotland into Norway.

It is also worth considering the downsides of living in such a wealthy country as consumer prices in Norway are astronomical. VAT stands at 25 per cent, you pay £9 for a pint in the pub, and the price for a new, five-door Vauxhall Corsa is £20,490 (in the UK the same car is £9,600).

This is fine if you are a top earner, but I am sure no-one in Scotland believes that becoming independent will automatically lead to an accumulation of enormous personal wealth for the entire population.

Finally, if an independent Scotland succeeds it will be because it is totally united. When Norway wanted independence 99.5 per cent of the population voted Yes.

I don’t see that sort of unity in Scotland today, and for that reason alone there should not be a referendum at all.

Haakon Blakstad

Moore Street

London