Scottish Independence

[blueinsa]

The left does definitely want the UK broken up. They’d rather side with Scottish, Irish and Welsh nationalists.

Attlee would be turning in his grave at these lot, who ironically worship him.

Its desperate stuff on here as they scramble for any sort of rock to cling to they can call a victory.

 

[Metal Biker]

The left does definitely want the UK broken up. They’d rather side with Scottish, Irish and Welsh nationalists.

Attlee would be turning in his grave at these lot, who ironically worship him.

It's also ironic how so many of them on the extreme left argued against the arguments of the UK leaving the European Union, now they adopt the arguments to ensure Scotland leaves the UK Union.

I'd prefer it if the UK Union stayed together but if they voted to leave I wouldn't begrudge or oppose their decision. I'd rather the citizens of Scotland were given a clear understanding of the position of the union, especially it's relationship with the EU and Europe before posing the question to them again about independence. I feel many pro-Union, Scottish leave voters have been ignored in the debate on SI, and the narrative by the extreme left that Scotland is anti-UK pro-EU isn't accurate at all.

IMO I find most Scots to be "pro-Scotland" thaqn anything, wanting what's best for the country and with brexit and the WA negotiations, they're currently waiting to see the outcome before deciding which Union, EU or UK Scotland is better aligned with.

 

[Metal Biker]

Then the right better get on with changing the opinion in Scotland, Wales , and N.Ireland, before the union slips away. By listening and being more flexible. Stubborness and refusing to listen are going to have the opposite result.
I'm an EU supporter, but one thing I learnt from the last few years is the lack of flexibilty can lead to break ups.

Wow....

I mean WOW!

Is it possible you've finally seen the leave voters point of view and, dare I say, have empathy for the decision we made? That it was a reluctant one, but one that had to be done!?

 

[Ban-jani]

Then the right better get on with changing the opinion in Scotland, Wales , and N.Ireland, before the union slips away. By listening and being more flexible. Stubborness and refusing to listen are going to have the opposite result.
I'm an EU supporter, but one thing I learnt from the last few years is the lack of flexibilty can lead to break ups.

The opinion in Wales is fine. They voted for Brexit and they aren’t close to wanting independence. They vote PC for the same reason many Scots vote SNP, because it’s a centrist option.

Scotland is polling at 52% Yes in the same week as we’ve left the EU. That is incredibly low and much lower than I expected, it’s bad news for Scottish nationalism. Only 34% actually want a referendum and only 45% voted for parties(party) that supports independence. Once Brexit becomes old news, in years to come, Scottish independence will shrink in support.

NI is far more complex and I fully expect the next generation to go down the route of a United Ireland. It’s a much more complex social situation over there and I don’t look on the unification of Ireland in the same light as Scottish Indy supporters. The problem with an independence vote in Ireland is, it’ll be marred by atrocities at polling stations and there will likely be social unrest. I think even Sinn Fein are going to drop an IndyRef as their policy, because of this.

“The right”, as in proper conservatism, in the UK has not been listened to for decades and certainly haven’t got their way. Brexit is probably the only aspect of it that has gone their way but the whole fabricate of society has been lead by the left, both in the Tory party and in Labour.

 

[blueparrot]

Wow....

I mean WOW!

Is it possible you've finally seen the leave voters point of view and, dare I say, have empathy for the decision we made? That it was a reluctant one, but one that had to be done!?

No, still think leaving the EU is stupid. I can see though how it could 've been avoided. A lesson you would think Johnson would understand seems not. I would be pretty stupid not to see in hindsight how such a tight leave vote could have been averted.

 

[Metal Biker]

The opinion in Wales is fine. They voted for Brexit and they aren’t close to wanting independence. They vote PC for the same reason many Scots vote SNP, because it’s a centrist option.

Scotland is polling at 52% Yes in the same week as we’ve left the EU. That is incredibly low and much lower than I expected, it’s bad news for Scottish nationalism. Only 34% actually want a referendum and only 45% voted for parties(party) that supports independence. Once Brexit becomes old news, in years to come, Scottish independence will shrink in support.

NI is far more complex and I fully expect the next generation to go down the route of a United Ireland. It’s a much more complex social situation over there and I don’t look on the unification of Ireland in the same light as Scottish Indy supporters. The problem with an independence vote in Ireland is, it’ll be marred by atrocities at polling stations and there will likely be social unrest. I think even Sinn Fein are going to drop an IndyRef as their policy, because of this.

“The right”, as in proper conservatism, in the UK has not been listened to for decades and certainly haven’t got their way. Brexit is probably the only aspect of it that has gone their way but the whole fabricate of society has been lead by the left, both in the Tory party and in Labour.

My own take on PC and SNP is that many Welsh and Scottish voters who support them are more of the opinion that they just don't trust the Tories or Labour to govern their nations, but are getting fatigued by PC and SNP's constant droning about "independence" for their countries.

It's surprising how many SNP and PC voters who admit to voting PC and SNP aren't actually supportive of independence, but those parties feel their public support falsely emboldens that view..

 

[Metal Biker]

No, still think leaving the EU is stupid. I can see though how it could 've been avoided. A lesson you would think Johnson would understand seems not. I would be pretty stupid not to see in hindsight how such a tight leave vote could have been averted.

Okay i'm getting confused by your position on these topics of independence.

You've always stated leaving the EU is bad, fair enough. You state that Westminster needs to start listening more to the people of Scotland otherwise they might vote to leave the UK. I presume you also think this decision for Scotland to leave the UK is "bad" (if you don't, that would be sheer hypocrisy), but what I want to know is, if Westminster continues to ignore and be stubborn to Scotland, would their decision to leave the UK be justified?

 

[blueinsa]

No, still think leaving the EU is stupid. I can see though how it could 've been avoided. A lesson you would think Johnson would understand seems not. I would be pretty stupid not to see in hindsight how such a tight leave vote could have been averted.

The SNP are effectively a one issue party and that is independence.

What listening could the rest of the UK do that would suddenly make a party like this drop its one true aim?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Should we start a thread about Gibraltar? No representatives now in the European Parliament because the UK pulled them out (only 4% voted to leave the EU it was the highest remain vote)... reliant on free movement to support its economy. Now under pressure to form a hard customs border with Spain ....which they don't want to do.

That's the problem you have when you are a British overseas territory, but dont want to pay the same tax as the mainland as your economy is a tax haven and then do not like the democratic result of the majority.

You would do well to remember the fact that democracy doesn't please everybody all the time!

 

[blueparrot]

The opinion in Wales is fine. They voted for Brexit and they aren’t close to wanting independence. They vote PC for the same reason many Scots vote SNP, because it’s a centrist option.

Scotland is polling at 52% Yes in the same week as we’ve left the EU. That is incredibly low and much lower than I expected, it’s bad news for Scottish nationalism. Only 34% actually want a referendum and only 45% voted for parties(party) that supports independence. Once Brexit becomes old news, in years to come, Scottish independence will shrink in support.

NI is far more complex and I fully expect the next generation to go down the route of a United Ireland. It’s a much more complex social situation over there and I don’t look on the unification of Ireland in the same light as Scottish Indy supporters. The problem with an independence vote in Ireland is, it’ll be marred by atrocities at polling stations and there will likely be social unrest. I think even Sinn Fein are going to drop an IndyRef as their policy, because of this.

“The right”, as in proper conservatism, in the UK has not been listened to for decades and certainly haven’t got their way. Brexit is probably the only aspect of it that has gone their way but the whole fabricate of society has been lead by the left, both in the Tory party and in Labour.

I have no idea about opinion in Wales so try not to link it to Scotlands independence debate. I just get the feeling in Scotland there is a lot of waiting to see what happens next, but there is a soft movement towards yes that could be headed off by offering a different deal similar to N.Ireland. Although presonally think the simplest way would be for the whole UK to take the N.I arrangement. Would kill off independence at a stroke. As well as removing Irish sea customs checks.