Scottish Independence

[blueinsa]

You would do well to remember the fact that democracy doesn't please everybody all the time!

This!

 

[blueparrot]

The SNP are effectively a one issue party and that is independence.

What listening could the rest of the UK do that would suddenly make a party like this drop its one true aim?

Because they also aren't stupid, they won't have a referendum if they see the current support which is quite soft drain away. Refusing to listen will harden that soft support. The reason she sent the letter last month was to provoke Johnso into exactly the sort of reply she got, to try and harden up support for independence.

 

[Ban-jani]

It's also ironic how so many of them on the extreme left argued against the arguments of the UK leaving the European Union, now they adopt the arguments to ensure Scotland leaves the UK Union.

I'd prefer it if the UK Union stayed together but if they voted to leave I wouldn't begrudge or oppose their decision. I'd rather the citizens of Scotland were given a clear understanding of the position of the union, especially it's relationship with the EU and Europe before posing the question to them again about independence. I feel many pro-Union, Scottish leave voters have been ignored in the debate on SI, and the narrative by the extreme left that Scotland is anti-UK pro-EU isn't accurate at all.

IMO I find most Scots to be "pro-Scotland" thaqn anything, wanting what's best for the country and with brexit and the WA negotiations, they're currently waiting to see the outcome before deciding which Union, EU or UK Scotland is better aligned with.

Peter Hitchens talks about this in the Abolition of Britain. The left needs an enemy to side with against the British state and England. First it was the Soviet Union, then the EU and now it’s seemingly nationalists in every other home nation other than England.

How they can be in favour of remaining in the EU and be pro independence for Scotland is a fucking wonder to me. It’s actually frightening how one can be in that position.

 

[blueinsa]

Because they also aren't stupid, they won't have a referendum if they see the current support which is quite soft drain away. Refusing to listen will harden that soft support. The reason she sent the letter last month was to provoke Johnso into exactly the sort of reply she got, to try and harden up support for independence.

If Scotland wants to be asked again and if enough vote to leave the union then so be it and the best of luck to them it really is that simple.

I dont agree with it nor will i vote for it but i will fully respect the result either way if it happens.

The SNP are tub thumpers in the exact same way the Brexit party where and UKIP in that they only want the one thing they where created for and nothing said can every change them from that course and the electorate will do what it always does and decide the future.

 

[Ban-jani]

My own take on PC and SNP is that many Welsh and Scottish voters who support them are more of the opinion that they just don't trust the Tories or Labour to govern their nations, but are getting fatigued by PC and SNP's constant droning about "independence" for their countries.

It's surprising how many SNP and PC voters who admit to voting PC and SNP aren't actually supportive of independence, but those parties feel their public support falsely emboldens that view..

Absolutely. There’s several on this forum.

 

[Ban-jani]

I have no idea about opinion in Wales so try not to link it to Scotlands independence debate. I just get the feeling in Scotland there is a lot of waiting to see what happens next, but there is a soft movement towards yes that could be headed off by offering a different deal similar to N.Ireland. Although presonally think the simplest way would be for the whole UK to take the N.I arrangement. Would kill off independence at a stroke. As well as removing Irish sea customs checks.

Then we’re moving towards May’s WA again and nobody liked that, because it was god awful and meant we were a rule taker from Brussels. Johnson’s deal is infinitely preferable.

NI has that agreement because we needed to uphold the GFA, Scotland doesn’t have such agreement and therefore there’s no need.

This “soft move towards independence” is polling lower than it was 24 months ago, where it was closer to 55% yes, in the height of the Brexit chaos.

 

[Metal Biker]

Peter Hitchens talks about this in the Abolition of Britain. The left needs an enemy to side with against the British state and England. First it was the Soviet Union, then the EU and now it’s seemingly nationalists in every other home nation other than England.

How they can be in favour of remaining in the EU and be pro independence for Scotland is a fucking wonder to me. It’s actually frightening how one can be in that position.

What's also astonishing is that many of the arguments made in favour of the UK leaving the EU are ones which they rejected, but they're now using themselves to justify Scotland leaving the UK Union.

Genuine Scots Indy supporters who feel ignored, dismissed and disregarded by Westminster I have empathy for, but the vacuous anti-English Indy supporters, whose arguments mimick ones they previously abhored yet now embrace because it suits their purpose, I have no time for. They care less about what's good for Scotland and more about harming England.

 

[Metal Biker]

Okay i'm getting confused by your position on these topics of independence.

You've always stated leaving the EU is bad, fair enough. You state that Westminster needs to start listening more to the people of Scotland otherwise they might vote to leave the UK. I presume you also think this decision for Scotland to leave the UK is "bad" (if you don't, that would be sheer hypocrisy), but what I want to know is, if Westminster continues to ignore and be stubborn to Scotland, would their decision to leave the UK be justified?

I'm guessing you didn't want to answer this, @blueparrot

 

[blueinsa]

What's also astonishing is that many of the arguments made in favour of the UK leaving the EU are ones which they rejected, but they're now using themselves to justify Scotland leaving the UK Union.

This which says to me it was never a principled stance but very much an anti Government/Tory/Farage/anyone who doesnt agree with me politically stance.

They are very happy to now argue for the very things they have for the last 3 years rallied against and said where impossible.

Electorates however have shown that nothing is impossible so if the Scots want it and can get another referendum in place then the best of luck to them.

 

[blueparrot]

If Scotland wants to be asked again and if enough vote to leave the union then so be it and the best of luck to them it really is that simple.

I dont agree with it nor will i vote for it but i will fully respect the result either way if it happens.

The SNP are tub thumpers in the exact same way the Brexit party where and UKIP in that they only want the one thing they where created for and nothing said can every change them from that course and the electorate will do what it always does and decide the future.

Well mas several poster have pointed out, the reason the SNP are in government is they are seen as the best left of centre option by many that don't support independence. So they aren't a single policy party, nor are they a one man party and in that way nothing like the Brexit / UKIP party.