Scottish Independence

Saddleworth2 said:
Yes, I’m sure it will be. Which is why I don’t believe independence is inevitable.
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Same here, although i think the SNP wouldn't hold back for the consideration of the border, but i think it would be very hard to determine where exactly that border would be nowadays. Afcourse, one could held plebicite's i all border regions of Scotland aswell with the Question if they would rather be part of England or Scotland after it went independat and i'm sure the SNP have contemplated before that there might be those especially in the south of Scotland that by now don't feel all that Scottish anymore.

Still, i wouldn't advice the UK to continue as an "union of unequals". Imho modern ideals revolving democracy have evolved so much that the current arrangement can't realisticly survive. The UK has a lot of traditions to be proud of but i'm sure many feel that a extra step needs to be taken to "updating politics". Kinda time for UK 2.0 so to speak.
 
Not entirely sure about its mechanics, especially as we don't know how or even whether it will be resolved, but if an acceptable arrangement is found for Northern Ireland/Ireland, could that then become the precedent/blueprint for Scotland were it to become independent and part of the EU?

Apologies if that is too stupid a suggestion.
 
Gabriel said:
Not entirely sure about its mechanics, especially as we don't know how or even whether it will be resolved, but if an acceptable arrangement is found for Northern Ireland/Ireland, could that then become the precedent/blueprint for Scotland were it to become independent and part of the EU?

Apologies if that is too stupid a suggestion.
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Not really, the issues are of a different nature. In ireland people know where the border is, it's just that you cant have a physical barrier on that border. In Scotland there would be no issue to having that physical border in the form of customs stations and border posts, the question though might very well be "where exactly would that border be". And yes on the map of the world they seem to have a rough idea of where that border is but that doesn't mean it's specified in all so great detail. The union has been formed century's ago, the border that vanished back then was hardly very specific and i doun't think much relevant documentation still exists rather than some very rough outlines that are irrelevant even simply due to change in the landscape over that period of time. Granted, i don't know, i'm speculating but it wouldn't surprise me if i turned out correct on that one.

Edit; Perhaps it might be simpler, i presume that the border would be set along existing borders between counties or whatever you guys name those provinces. For example the border between Dumfries and Galloway compared to Cumbria would form the modern Scottish border?
 
FlemishDuck said:
Not really, the issues are of a different nature. In ireland people know where the border is, it's just that you cant have a physical barrier on that border. In Scotland there would be no issue to having that physical border in the form of customs stations and border posts, the question though might very well be "where exactly would that border be". And yes on the map of the world they seem to have a rough idea of where that border is but that doesn't mean it's specified in all so great detail. The union has been formed century's ago, the border that vanished back then was hardly very specific and i doun't think much relevant documentation still exists rather than some very rough outlines that are irrelevant even simply due to change in the landscape over that period of time. Granted, i don't know, i'm speculating but it wouldn't surprise me if i turned out correct on that one.

Edit; Perhaps it might be simpler, i presume that the border would be set along existing borders between counties or whatever you guys name those provinces. For example the border between Dumfries and Galloway compared to Cumbria would form the modern Scottish border?
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Given that Scotland and England have distinct legal systems, I think the boundary of Scots law and English law means that the border is better known and recognised than you speculate.
 
I wish they would just fuck off and be done with it, Jimmy Krankie and her corrupt mob do my head in. the only policy the SNP have is independence, if they do get it they are fucked.
 
Gabriel said:
Given that Scotland and England have distinct legal systems, I think the boundary of Scots law and English law means that the border is better known and recognised than you speculate.
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Good point, and i also noticed that the border also follows borders between counties. My speculation is likely completly wrong, i let myself be guided by our own history where these things were more of a challenge. Like poor Brabant: once there was 1 Brabant, now there is a Dutch Brabant, a Flemish Brabant and a Walloon Brabant.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Good point, and i also noticed that the border also follows borders between counties. My speculation is likely completly wrong, i let myself be guided by our own history where these things were more of a challenge. Like poor Brabant: once there was 1 Brabant, now there is a Dutch Brabant, a Flemish Brabant and a Walloon Brabant.
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Yes, rather similar to Limburg, but they now have three distinct cultures and languages. The Scottish English border is actually rather small, less than a third of that between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Not really, the issues are of a different nature. In ireland people know where the border is, it's just that you cant have a physical barrier on that border. In Scotland there would be no issue to having that physical border in the form of customs stations and border posts, the question though might very well be "where exactly would that border be". And yes on the map of the world they seem to have a rough idea of where that border is but that doesn't mean it's specified in all so great detail. The union has been formed century's ago, the border that vanished back then was hardly very specific and i doun't think much relevant documentation still exists rather than some very rough outlines that are irrelevant even simply due to change in the landscape over that period of time. Granted, i don't know, i'm speculating but it wouldn't surprise me if i turned out correct on that one.

Edit; Perhaps it might be simpler, i presume that the border would be set along existing borders between counties or whatever you guys name those provinces. For example the border between Dumfries and Galloway compared to Cumbria would form the modern Scottish border?
Click to expand...

Where are you getting that nobody knows where the border would be btw?

As someone that crosses from England to Scotland a lot, rather, vice-versa, i can tell you exactly where one ends and the other begins. not just the one route/location either.

A number of years ago, when Scotland introduced the smoking ban in public places, but England was a few years behind, folk i know in Scotland used to have a drink, then walk across the border to the nearest pub in England for a drink and a smoke, then back again to their usual pub.

Not that im advocating a border, just that it isn't like one doesn't exist as such.
 
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