Scottish Independence

[aguero93:20]

Nah, it wasn't that long ago. This decade in fact ;)

Thankfully we teach history and not propaganda in school.

 

[aguero93:20]

As I said in the Brexit thread, I'm in favour of indyref2 if that's what the Scots want. I'm in favour of them winning it if 50% +1 vote that way.

I'm also in favour of them only being allowed to actually leave once they have a full and final deal that the rest of the uk also agrees to. Failure to do such a deal would naturally mean they would not be allowed to leave. There would have to be an extension asked for, by law, by nicola of course and this extension would be Westminster's to grant or deny, and would be entirely at the decision of Westminster how long it lasted for and what conditions were attached to it.

Then after one day doing the deal there would need to be a confirmatory referendum to make sure the people who had voted Yes initially actually knew what they had voted for.

Perfectly sane and democratic principles and ones which I am certain the yellow Tories north of the border would wholeheartedly agree with and sign up to and the entire Scottish populace would equally agree with in its entirety.

Any watering down of the above would be a denial of democracy and should lead to immediate revocation of the notice to withdraw from the union.

Sounds fair.

 

[Rascal]

Not even those Nationalist ones?

Strange given your very vocal objections to so called English nationalists?

Little scotlanders yes?

I believe them to be two different things. Its nuanced but the Scottish Nats want their country to be independent, the English Nats want their country to be for themselves. I know its subtle , but its significant. No Scot alive has ever known independence and they are subject to rule from another country by means of a 300 year old act. English Nats have always enjoyed home rule and want to keep that for themselves.

There are probably little Scotlanders and in all likelihood there has always has been, English Nationalism is a new phenomena fuelled by different circumstances, there has never been until recently any call for an Independent England and to me it is obvious why it is arising now. English resentment of the Union constitutional settlement has been fuelled by the Brexit vote and the fact Scotland vote remain. English Nationalists see Scotland as a barrier to the prize that the little Englanders cherish more than anything else. The opinion polls of the Tory party members showed they would be willing to sacrifice Scotland to achieve their aim. Scotland have become the neglected little brother of the constitutional settlement and are subjected to the whims of the English majority. I get that the subjugation of their desires has lead them along another path and I don't blame them at all for wanting their own country where their own decisions matter. English Nationalists aims are for the traditional Nationalist approaches of identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations. English Nationalism is insular, Scottish Nationalism is more inclusive as expressed by their desire to remain part of the EU if they leave the UK.

Its the insularity of the English Nationalist approach that is typified by the Little Englander approach, it is exclusive and exalts England above all other nations of the United Kingdom. This was expressed at the General Election when Miliband faced Cameron and the prospect of the Scottish Nats being part of a coalition government resulted in real opprobrium aimed at the prospect of it occurring. This was English Nationalist fear of been governed by a part non English Government. It is in effect seen as English exclusion from power.

English Nationalists see both of England’s unions – the United Kingdom and the EU – as working against the interests of the particular England they see as excluded from power. This clash between the “establishment” and the English is about aspirations for power, representation and democracy that would be taken for granted in any other nation; it’s neither necessarily regressive nor inherently right wing, although the right wing promote it through the likes of the Little Englander Corp I posted about earlier.

I admit my earlier post was a caricature of English Nationalists, but in defence I am not a fan of Nationalism, I don't see the Scottish Nats as a true Nationalist party, they are an independence party in my view.

 

[aguero93:20]

I would settle for fair shares for all participants of the Kingdom otherwise we can never be truly united.

This lad gets it.

 

[aguero93:20]

More money is spent per head on Scots than the English, they get free Uni fees and prescriptions, they’re fucking ungrateful cunts and carry on with this ridiculous William Wallace nationalism.

The moment they leave the UK, RBS moves all operations to England and it’ll serve them right.

Who’s currency are they going to use?

Our ridiculous Cu Chulainn nationalism didn't do us too badly.

 

[Saddleworth2]

More money is spent per head on Scots than the English, they get free Uni fees and prescriptions, they’re fucking ungrateful cunts and carry on with this ridiculous William Wallace nationalism.

The moment they leave the UK, RBS moves all operations to England and it’ll serve them right.

Who’s currency are they going to use?

That’s very sweeping mate. Calling the entire Scottish nation ungrateful cunts is pretty poor. I have to say I thought you were better than that. The argument regarding independence is far more complex and sophisticated than cartoonish posts. I was a very fervent no voter in indyref 1 but bloody hell a few more years of Tory government and jingoistic behaviour from our neighbours might push even the hard core unionists over the edge.

 

[Ban-jani]

Our ridiculous Cu Chulainn nationalism didn't do us too badly.

That was in a completely different era and backed by something that was present at the time. The logistics in the modern world are totally different and we’ve been one nation for 300 years.

It’s totally incomparable and that nationalism you’re referring to, shouldn’t be taking place in 2019 on either of or islands.

 

[Ban-jani]

That’s very sweeping mate. Calling the entire Scottish nation ungrateful cunts is pretty poor. I have to say I thought you were better than that. The argument regarding independence is far more complex and sophisticated than cartoonish posts. I was a very fervent no voter in indyref 1 but bloody hell a few more years of Tory government and jingoistic behaviour from our neighbours might push even the hard core unionists over the edge.

I’m not calling the whole Scottish nation ungrateful cunts, I’m calling the SNP and their followers ungrateful cunts.

My Scottish, Manchester based pal also thinks they’re fucking idiots.

I’m fucking sick to the back teeth of them slagging England off at every opportunity.

The one benefit of them voting for yes, if they do, is that the look on their faces when they don’t have a currency and their economy crashes.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I would settle for fair shares for all participants of the Kingdom otherwise we can never be truly united. Some most appear to have their sticky fingers in said pie than t'others !

Fair shares of what mate? Inward investments? Tax? Money from the EU? Infrastructure spend? Or does the entire argument revolve round the Scottish governments priority of spending on bus passes and prescriptions?

 

[Saddleworth2]

I’m not calling the whole Scottish nation ungrateful cunts, I’m calling the SNP and their followers ungrateful cunts.

My Scottish, Manchester based pal also thinks they’re fucking idiots.

I’m fucking sick to the back teeth of them slagging England off at every opportunity.

The one benefit of them voting for yes, if they do, is that the look on their faces when they don’t have a currency and their economy crashes.

Maybe next time being a little more precise with words would help avoid misunderstandings. My comments remain though, describing anyone that votes for a party in those terms is just wrong.