Scottish Independence

[mexico1970]

Most of the objections to the state of our union could be addressed by a federal Britain, with 4 equal country parliaments, with equal budgets per head, tho' Scotland would lose some funding. Some have argued that a greater degree of devolution would solve the probs, but England needs representation.
What do unionists think of a federal system?

Or rename the lot and call it something else like Great Nirvana, but nationalists on all sides would cringe at that plan. They don't want to be together the politicians in all the home nations want power in their own neck of the woods. In reality the little people the average Jack and Jill just want to get on with their lives without listening to the constant bleating of the power hungry nationalists on all sides.

 

[Ban-jani]

Most of the objections to the state of our union could be addressed by a federal Britain, with 4 equal country parliaments, with equal budgets per head, tho' Scotland would lose some funding. Some have argued that a greater degree of devolution would solve the probs, but England needs representation.
What do unionists think of a federal system?

I’m against this but at least it’s a fucking sensible idea in the main.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Most of the objections to the state of our union could be addressed by a federal Britain, with 4 equal country parliaments, with equal budgets per head, tho' Scotland would lose some funding. Some have argued that a greater degree of devolution would solve the probs, but England needs representation.
What do unionists think of a federal system?

Depending on how it was constructed, it could address multiple problems that the UK faces. Imo, it would also need to address the regional tensions in England. Maybe three or four regional english parliaments leaving westminster with an overarching governance role. If Johnson had any strategic nous he would be engaging and discussing these options. He wont though.

 

[blueparrot]

Most of the objections to the state of our union could be addressed by a federal Britain, with 4 equal country parliaments, with equal budgets per head, tho' Scotland would lose some funding. Some have argued that a greater degree of devolution would solve the probs, but England needs representation.
What do unionists think of a federal system?

I have always though a federal system was the way ahead not just for Scotland but England, N. Ireland and Wales too. I probably still would as long as the different parts could negotiate their own EU setlements which isn't going to happen, and if we were already federal there wouldn't have been any brexit.
I still beleive even from where we are today offering Scotland the same arrangement as that given to N.Ireland would kill the independence support that's growing. If, as Boris tells us, it's a brilliant deal he's got for N.I with a foot in both camps, shouldn't the same brilliant deal be on offer to other parts of the United Kingdom ?

 

[joe123]

I’m not sure what road to Damascus moment you’re referring to. I’m a remain voter and always would be. Whilst we must hold the government to account over the next phase, I just don’t think continuing the arguments of the last 3 years is worthy of anyone’s time.

Your post really has little to do with mine and I’m unsure of your point. The mandate from the Scottish people was set in 2014 and I don’t believe in rerunning referenda until one side gets what they wish. It’s terribly irresponsible and thrusts whole geographical regions into being unstable.

The SNP and their followers are but a blip in the history of the UK and I’ll be damned if their nationalist, English hating, detail lacking screeches break up the union.

Now if you want to debate the merits of breaking up the union, I’m here for you.

I just meant your acceptance of the realities of it after the Tory landslide when the SNP have just increased their Scottish majority on an independent ticket.

 

[Ban-jani]

Depending on how it was constructed, it could address multiple problems that the UK faces. Imo, it would also need to address the regional tensions in England. Maybe three or four regional english parliaments leaving westminster with an overarching governance role. If Johnson had any strategic nous he would be engaging and discussing these options. He wont though.

Before anything like this is even thought about it we need to have left for several years after negotiating our trade deal with the EU.

Johnson might not be around in a decade and I seriously think we don’t and won’t do any constitutional change for at least ten years.

 

[Saddleworth2]

You’re absolutely right it’s not a union of equals, it’s a union heavily favouring Scotland at each Scottish vote is worth more than an English one, due to representation and population size. Your vote up there is more powerful than mine, you have more money spent on you, on average, than I do on me and you have your own Parliament, representing just 5 million people, that has devolved powers, that I do not have, living in the north of England.

So you’re spot on, it’s not equal.

Well it’s tough shit that we’ve voted to leave a trading bloc, you voted to stay in the UK and you were told that a vote to leave the UK was a vote to leave the EU. That’s still true and it’s true today. You’ll be in neither of you go independent, neither.

Had you voted to be independent in 2014, you’d have been in neither for years to come too, probably still now, if you hadn’t rejoined the UK.

Every single argument you have ever made about Brexit applies to the Indy point, only times it by ten.

It’s Brexit on steroids and it will destroy lives. The SNP purposefully give little detail on what a post Indy Scotland will look like, it’s a tactic because they know it’s not good.

I cannot fathom how anyone could possibly be for Independence for Scotland but against Brexit. It’s the biggest hypocrisy in the history of politics.

The only reason people could have this view is because they hate England and have a fetish for Brussels. It’s mind boggling nonsense and thankfully you do not have a cat in hell’s chance of getting it.

Enjoy your rant.

 

[Ban-jani]

I just meant your acceptance of the realities of it after the Tory landslide when the SNP have just increased their Scottish majority on an independent ticket.

That would be true, had Scotland voted Yes in 2014, most called for a rerun of the vote and the SNP gained their biggest majority for half a century.

But fundamentally they lost in 2014 and many will vote SNP without supporting independence, because they’re the only viable centrist party in Scotland.

 

[Ban-jani]

Enjoy your rant.

We’re having a debate. How’s it a rant?

I think this means that you cannot come back to my points and therefore agree?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Before anything like this is even thought about it we need to have left for several years after negotiating our trade deal with the EU.

Johnson might not be around in a decade and I seriously think we don’t and won’t do any constitutional change for at least ten years.

I have come to the conclusion that I don't really care much or agree with most of the stuff that you write. I think I will leave it at that. Have a good one.