Seat Counters - 2022/23

[The Lightbowne Cowboy]

The whole ’Empty Seats’ stuff bugs me so I’ve been doing some analysis comparing attendances at PL clubs recently. I’ve just published this article which includes some stats that City fans may want to remember, especially when being challenged by Villa, Everton or LFC fans.

Attendance Differences

I’ve been doing quite a bit of research into attendance figures this week and thought I’d share a couple of findings which may surprise some. There has been a lot of talk in recent years about cert…

gjfootballarchive.com

There will be more on this in the coming weeks.

Great article Gary. I'm sure I read a while back that you were delving into our historical attendances and that you maybe have evidence that they were higher than stated? ? Please excuse me if I've got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[Gary James]

Great article Gary. I'm sure I read a while back that you were delving into our historical attendances and that you maybe have evidence that they were higher than stated? ? Please excuse me if I've got the wrong end of the stick.

Yes and they are for many decades of the club’s existence. In simple terms City never included season tickets in their attendances submitted to the League. So every game pre about 1960 is understated by however many season tickets had been sold. The figure given to the league was those who had paid specifically for that game. In 1923 that’s a difference of about 1800 per game for example. The attendance for Maine Rd’s first game was 58,159 but only about 56400 was submitted to the League and that lower figure usually appears in stats etc. I corrected it for my books since 2005 but it is still out there.

 

[The Lightbowne Cowboy]

Yes and they are for many decades of the club’s existence. In simple terms City never included season tickets in their attendances submitted to the League. So every game pre about 1960 is understated by however many season tickets had been sold. The figure given to the league was those who had paid specifically for that game. In 1923 that’s a difference of about 1800 per game for example. The attendance for Maine Rd’s first game was 58,159 but only about 56400 was submitted to the League and that lower figure usually appears in stats etc. I corrected it for my books since 2005 but it is still out there.

Great knowledge pal. I find it fascinating. I wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of the Swales/Halford era attendances? They were the masters,magicians even, of turning a near full house into 22k :)

 

[Gary James]

Great knowledge pal. I find it fascinating. I wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of the Swales/Halford era attendances? They were the masters,magicians even, of turning a near full house into 22k :)

I have a recording from an interview I did with Bernard many years ago in which he admits how the last ‘official’ crowd of over 54,000 at Maine Rd was actually considerably more. It was v Sunderland and his first game as Secretary.

 

[Norbiton]

Yes and they are for many decades of the club’s existence. In simple terms City never included season tickets in their attendances submitted to the League. So every game pre about 1960 is understated by however many season tickets had been sold. The figure given to the league was those who had paid specifically for that game. In 1923 that’s a difference of about 1800 per game for example. The attendance for Maine Rd’s first game was 58,159 but only about 56400 was submitted to the League and that lower figure usually appears in stats etc. I corrected it for my books since 2005 but it is still out there.

Funny how it’s now gone the other way and season ticket holders are counted in the attendance whether they’re in the ground or not. Don’t suppose your research on empty seats can take that into account can it?

 

[Gary James]

Funny how it’s now gone the other way and season ticket holders are counted in the attendance whether they’re in the ground or not. Don’t suppose your research on empty seats can take that into account can it?

I wish I could but most teams do not publish the actual attendance but tickets sold. I suppose there’s an argument to say that if you’ve bought a ticket for any event you should be counted. A theatre full house sign will go up even if someone doesn’t make it. Also, so long as all clubs report in the same way then that’s fine. It’s when some clubs’ fans start to laugh at another club’s that it becomes frustrating.

 

[Stephen230]

I’d love to know the actual attendance at that Arsenal Thursday night game a few years ago. Have I imagined this or did I once read that the police have to be informed of the actual number of people in the ground at each match? I’m having a flashback that GMP once released some stats on the numbers actually in attendance at City and United one year.

 

[Corky]

I’d love to know the actual attendance at that Arsenal Thursday night game a few years ago. Have I imagined this or did I once read that the police have to be informed of the actual number of people in the ground at each match? I’m having a flashback that GMP once released some stats on the numbers actually in attendance at City and United one year.

Police don't count them, they are wild estimates.

 

[Stephen230]

Police don't count them, they are wild estimates.

Wasn’t suggesting they count them themselves. But the club will know ( aside from an odd jibber inner ) exactly how many people are in the ground. I just thought I’d read that the police request that information. Probably imagined it.

 

[Corky]

Wasn’t suggesting they count them themselves. But the club will know ( aside from an odd jibber inner ) exactly how many people are in the ground. I just thought I’d read that the police request that information. Probably imagined it.

It was the BBC FOI to police, a lot of which was FIO'd, the official data already published.

The figures were too rounded to be actual data.