Shamima Begum

Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
She can be tried 'in absentia' - stateless or not! That must be an option!
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No she can’t. If she absconded from bail and couldn’t be found she could be tried in absentia. If nobody knew where she was she could be tried in absentia. You can’t deny somebody the right to return to face trial and then try them in absentia
 
LGWIO said:
Its funny that I dont actually think the nationality/passport thing is much of an issue.
It is within the power of our governement to remove someones nationality (if it is acquired rather than through birth prior to 1/1/81) with her automatically holding BGD nationality through her parents.
So the whole bringing her back for the appeal (IMHO) is a moot point.

For me the whole issue is of morals and duty. Should we just abondon some, or many people who have suffered or are suffering? Should we as a "civilised" and developed/rich(er) country not reach out and help others not matter what they may have done in the past?

But then where do we draw the line? The camps in Turkey/Syria? Iraq? The Rohingyas? The "caravans" travelling up through central America? How many do we or should we help?

The only people who will be doign well out of this situation will be the media and the lawyers of course.
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Who’d have thought it?

A Liverpool fan who doesn’t want someone to face trial for their criminal actions.
 
mackenzie said:
I wonder what the returning WW2 soldiers would have thought of all this.
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Given that the UK post war elected the Labour Govt, that the British people accepted not only the likes of Polish, Czech and French nationals who chose to stay here after hostilities ceased they also were sanguine about Italian and German POW's who ( unlike Begum ) had fought against us and were captured on the battlefield whilst engaged in armed opposition but wanted to stay here and were welcomed my guess is they would be bewildered why we have such a right wing government that is so anti Europe them having spent 6 years liberating it and why a British citizen - a young woman - was stripped of her citizen ship and rights to a fair trial by the Government in question.
Particularly when we tried and hanged William Joyce for treason insisting he was a British citizen when he lied to obtain a British passport.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
inews.co.uk

Shamima Begum appeals her loss of British citizenship, saying husband raped her

Aged 15 at the time, Shamima Begum's lawyer told media she was a victim of rape after leaving the UK and marrying a 23 year-old ISIS fighter
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk

She claims that she was raped according to this article, there is a difference between factual and legal consent.

Do you read arabic and have access to the Syrian criminal code or have translations available? What about the issue of marital rape, I'm sure the rule in Islamic state was that wives were not able to withdraw consent to sex when in marriage.

Do you think it is ironic we are now showing defference to the laws of Syria and it's justice system when I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would argue it wasn't a corrupt and brutal regime?
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I was just pointing out that the age of consent in Syria was 15 and that she was not under age, as the other poster had stated. The accusation of rape can never be proven.

My own personal opinion of the whole matter is that I find it troublesome. She was a 15 year old girl and we are writing her whole life off due to actions she took at that age. Up until 21 I was very immature and if society had taken the same principals with me, then I would have ended up on the scrapheap.
As of yet, I am not sure what from a legal stand point, she has actually done wrong. Until the evidence is presented I do not have enough knowledge on the episode to have a valid opinion.

From the interviews of her I have seen, her views are morally repugnant and her lack of remorse and contrition is absolutely disgusting. Her comments regarding the Manchester bombing have rightly pissed people off and I understand the outrage from people.

It seems an extremely complicated case. It is difficult for any of us to have an informed view, hence why I find the whole episode troublesome and why at this point I am sat on the fence regarding what I believe should happen.
 
Nightmare Walking said:
I was just pointing out that the age of consent in Syria was 15 and that she was not under age, as the other poster had stated. The accusation of rape can never be proven.

My own personal opinion of the whole matter is that I find it troublesome. She was a 15 year old girl and we are writing her whole life off due to actions she took at that age. Up until 21 I was very immature and if society had taken the same principals with me, then I would have ended up on the scrapheap.
As of yet, I am not sure what from a legal stand point, she has actually done wrong. Until the evidence is presented I do not have enough knowledge on the episode to have a valid opinion.

From the interviews of her I have seen, her views are morally repugnant and her lack of remorse and contrition is absolutely disgusting. Her comments regarding the Manchester bombing have rightly pissed people off and I understand the outrage from people.

It seems an extremely complicated case. It is difficult for any of us to have an informed view, hence why I find the whole episode troublesome and why at this point I am sat on the fence regarding what I believe should happen.
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Fair enough, that's a balanced view. Nobody would defend some of ger reported views although from what I could tell most of what she said was only after prompting from the press. From reading that article the comments about the heads in bins seems to reflect a mind radicalised by propaganda- claims that they would victimise Muslim women. But then if that is the case why was she taken captive and not subject to this?

We also can't discount that she may have been rationalising her abhorrent views about terrorist events under duress of circumstances i. e. there may be loyalist elements in the camps who would dole out punishments for things like apologising. I linked an article about beheadings in one camp, and her lawyer told the court she would be at risk of physical harm from people in the camp if she spoke by mobile phone to her British lawyers.
 
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