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lazerblue
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your mystic meg are you, when have i said i'm a supporter of farage
Shamima Begum
- Thread starter SuperstarNeilC
- Start date
Indaparkside
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- 28 Dec 2015
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- 14,865
Think your I love Trump t, shirt gave it away
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lazerblue
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Mother of Manchester Arena victim Liam Curry calls Begum a 'murderer' | ITV News
The mother of Liam Curry, a victim of the Manchester Arena attack, has called Shamima Begum a 'murderer', after she pleaded for forgiveness on GMB. | ITV News Granada
www.itv.com
Churchlawtonblue
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- Joined
- 3 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 14,866
Sure we all make stupid mistakes when young, but not many go and join a Terrorist organisation that was out to destroy our country and way of life.
Once shes back, she will be back for good, there are many more worthy of citizenship in the queue before her.
Scottyboi
Well-Known Member
Don't like how we have let her be another countries problem. She was radicalised over here she is our responsibility whether we like it or not.
She will be on the watchlist for her entire life if she comes home. She won't be a threat, MI5 will make sure of that, and she'll know it.
Under normal circumstances, a 14 or 15 year old girl having her head turned so badly by people so much older than she was at the time and leaves the security of her family to travel to a faraway land, be forced to marry and have 3 children would be considered child abuse.
I don't know if you are OK with that, but I'm not, and as I've said, she's prepared to face the music and regrets what she has done.
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Alan Harper's Tash
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- 12 Dec 2010
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- 60,331
Easily sorted. Put her on trial and abide by the verdict.Mother of Manchester Arena victim Liam Curry calls Begum a 'murderer' | ITV News
The mother of Liam Curry, a victim of the Manchester Arena attack, has called Shamima Begum a 'murderer', after she pleaded for forgiveness on GMB. | ITV News Granada
Churchlawtonblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 14,866
Im absolutely fine with it actually. Like i said many more deserving souls than this young lady. I suspect the families of those murdered by Isis are fine with it aswell along with the vast majority of British citizens, But I accept that those are my assumptions.
I would also be fine with it if M16 tracked down all those that joined isis and then sneaked back into the UK when Isis lost, removed their citizenship and deported them to some desolate camp in Syria.
I would happily replace them with Syrian refugees who want to be here, like those who have lost their homes and loved ones due to Isis.
Can I just ask how do you know for certain she was forced to marry and have three children. You seem to have made some sweeping assumptions just to make her look more of a victim?
ZenHalfTimeCrock
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Gina Vale on Begum:
www.theguardian.com
The publications of the International Centre for the Study of Radicalization at King's College, London are usually well-informed. The contributory scholars are also not necessarily left-wing. For example, Shiraz Maher (who was critical of Corbyn on his Twitter feed a while ago) has pretty much authored the definitive work on Salafi-Jihadism. Here's an older piece of his on Begum:
www.newstatesman.com
The journalist Patrick Cockburn was also very good in his reportage on what went on in ISIS controlled territory. Here's a sample:
www.businessinsider.com
From memory, my understanding is that the punishment described here ('the biter') was often administered by women. Of course, we know very little about what Begum and other women actually got up to during their time when ISIS was more in the ascendant, but this is also something to take into consideratiion.
I actually don't know Vale, nor am I well-informed enough at present to pass judgement on the Begum case and the wider issue of 'jihadi brides'. But from many years of teaching ethics, what I do know that is that our moral judgements are often instantaneous, and that we then tend to formulate post hoc justifications for them. So this is something that has to be factored in and that we need to be wary of, especially given that we don't tend to be swayed even when presented with information that flatly contradicts the position we have adopted or that shows it to be demonstrably false.
For more on this, see Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind and Joshua Greene's Moral Tribes.
Lastly, on the wider issue of moral agency, I would encourage readers of this thread to look at the case of Leopold and Loeb and particularly the arguments deployed by their attorney Clarence Darrow in the hope of sparing this notorious pair the death penalty, as well as what happened to them in later life.
Dave Eagleman's book Incognito (on the manner in which the unconscious brain influences our behaviour without our necessarily realizing as well as the relationship between neuroscience and the law) is also possibly relevant. Although he doesn't discuss the adolescent brain specifically, I would be interested to know more about how the brain of a 15 year old is configured in comparison to that of a fully-fledged adult, and whether this might impact in any way on impulse control and conscious decision-making.
Shamima Begum, regardless of her new image, remains the UK's responsibility | Gina Vale
She was groomed as a child and has endured trauma – and to say she now ‘looks western’ is an insult to British Muslims, says radicalisation expert Gina Vale
www.theguardian.com
The publications of the International Centre for the Study of Radicalization at King's College, London are usually well-informed. The contributory scholars are also not necessarily left-wing. For example, Shiraz Maher (who was critical of Corbyn on his Twitter feed a while ago) has pretty much authored the definitive work on Salafi-Jihadism. Here's an older piece of his on Begum:
The case of Shamima Begum shows there are no easy choices for the West as Isis collapses
There is a moral case for repatriating minors taken to Syria by their parents or born there to British migrants.
www.newstatesman.com
The journalist Patrick Cockburn was also very good in his reportage on what went on in ISIS controlled territory. Here's a sample:
ISIS is using a metal tool called 'the Biter' to clip the flesh of women who disobey its dress code
The instrument shows increasing levels of barbarity within the 'caliphate's' own walls.
www.businessinsider.com
From memory, my understanding is that the punishment described here ('the biter') was often administered by women. Of course, we know very little about what Begum and other women actually got up to during their time when ISIS was more in the ascendant, but this is also something to take into consideratiion.
I actually don't know Vale, nor am I well-informed enough at present to pass judgement on the Begum case and the wider issue of 'jihadi brides'. But from many years of teaching ethics, what I do know that is that our moral judgements are often instantaneous, and that we then tend to formulate post hoc justifications for them. So this is something that has to be factored in and that we need to be wary of, especially given that we don't tend to be swayed even when presented with information that flatly contradicts the position we have adopted or that shows it to be demonstrably false.
For more on this, see Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind and Joshua Greene's Moral Tribes.
Lastly, on the wider issue of moral agency, I would encourage readers of this thread to look at the case of Leopold and Loeb and particularly the arguments deployed by their attorney Clarence Darrow in the hope of sparing this notorious pair the death penalty, as well as what happened to them in later life.
Dave Eagleman's book Incognito (on the manner in which the unconscious brain influences our behaviour without our necessarily realizing as well as the relationship between neuroscience and the law) is also possibly relevant. Although he doesn't discuss the adolescent brain specifically, I would be interested to know more about how the brain of a 15 year old is configured in comparison to that of a fully-fledged adult, and whether this might impact in any way on impulse control and conscious decision-making.
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journolud
Well-Known Member
This is all much too nuanced and thoughtful for the knee jerkers on this threadGina Vale on Begum:
Shamima Begum, regardless of her new image, remains the UK's responsibility | Gina Vale
She was groomed as a child and has endured trauma – and to say she now ‘looks western’ is an insult to British Muslims, says radicalisation expert Gina Vale
The publications of the International Centre for the Study of Radicalization at King's College, London are usually well-informed. The contributory scholars are also not necessarily left-wing. For example, Shiraz Maher (who was critical of Corbyn on his Twitter feed a while ago) has pretty much authored the definitive work on Salafi-Jihadism. Here's an older piece of his on Begum:
The case of Shamima Begum shows there are no easy choices for the West as Isis collapses
There is a moral case for repatriating minors taken to Syria by their parents or born there to British migrants.
The journalist Patrick Cockburn was also very good in his reportage on what went on in ISIS controlled territory. Here's a sample:
ISIS is using a metal tool called 'the Biter' to clip the flesh of women who disobey its dress code
The instrument shows increasing levels of barbarity within the 'caliphate's' own walls.
From memory, my understanding is that the punishment described here ('the biter') was often administered by women. Of course, we know very little about what Begum and other women actually got up to during their time when ISIS was more in the ascendant, but this is also something to take into consideratiion.
I actually don't know Vale, nor am I well-informed enough at present to pass judgement on the Begum case and the wider issue of 'jihadi brides'. But from many years of teaching ethics, what I do know that is that our moral judgements are often instantaneous, and that we then tend to formulate post hoc justifications for them. So this is something that has to be factored in and that we need to be wary of, especially given that we don't tend to be swayed even when presented with information that flatly contradicts the position we have adopted or that shows it to be demonstrably false.
For more on this, see Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind and Joshua Greene's Moral Tribes.
Lastly, on the wider issue of moral agency, I would encourage readers of this thread to look at the case of Leopold and Loeb and particularly the arguments deployed by their attorney Clarence Darrow in the hope of sparing this notorious pair the death penalty, as well as what happened to them in later life.
Dave Eagleman's book Incognito (on the manner in which the unconscious brain influences our behaviour without our necessarily realizing as well as the relationship between neuroscience and the law) is also possibly relevant. Although he doesn't discuss the adolescent brain specifically, I would be interested to know more about how the brain of a 15 year old is configured in comparison to that of a fully-fledged adult, and whether this might impact in any way on impulse control and conscious decision-making.