Ship of fools

[paphos-mcfc]

The Bible enjoins us to “try to give a reason for the hope that is in you”.

I kicked off this thread to counter and to give an opportunity for reflection to some of those strident voices I encountered in, The Genius of Charles Darwin & The God Delusion, No Blue Heaven For ElanJo, Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, Did Darwin Kill God? God Is Not A Jerk? and (most recently and memorably)
Is Religion a Load of Balls?

Well farewell my foolish fellow blues. I wish you God speed but hardly bon voyage.
You clearly find the prospect of the journey to purposeless oblivion an attractive proposition.

Some of you proudly believe that generations of the faithful throughout the world have simply failed to notice what you have all grasped so quickly, bravely and brightly in your short lives.

That the world is so awful there can be no God and any pretence to the contrary is just a cowardly delusion. Encouraged by the corrupt elites, human beings are so stupid, so weak and so gullible as to believe anything. So unlike your good selves.

Even the appalling Richard Dawkins, whom many of you seem to regard with such affection, baulks at the emptiness of this vision and speculates that the gift of sentient life is a reward from alien visitors.

I’ll leave you with the words of Leonard Cohen (again):

Jesus was a sailor ...only drowning men can see him...as he sinks beneath your wisdom like a stone.

Are you a man of the cloth Johnny? What's your view on other faiths then? If a muslim or a buddhist said they didn't believe in JC what would that make them in your eyes? Before you say "there is only one true God" Then why are there so many religions, some with different Gods? Simple questions that even you cannot answer. What is God? answer. How do you know this? answer. Where is your proof other than your blind faith?Stick to your beliefs, and i'll stick to mine. It's a football forum mate and you post on here like fucking David Icke. so if i'm a virulent & unreasoning atheist, what gives you the power to judge me??? Judge not lest ye be judged yourself mate!!!!!!!

 

[Stanley]

The Bible enjoins us to “try to give a reason for the hope that is in you”.

I kicked off this thread to counter and to give an opportunity for reflection to some of those strident voices I encountered in, The Genius of Charles Darwin & The God Delusion, No Blue Heaven For ElanJo, Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, Did Darwin Kill God? God Is Not A Jerk? and (most recently and memorably)
Is Religion a Load of Balls?

Well farewell my foolish fellow blues. I wish you God speed but hardly bon voyage.
You clearly find the prospect of the journey to purposeless oblivion an attractive proposition.

Some of you proudly believe that generations of the faithful throughout the world have simply failed to notice what you have all grasped so quickly, bravely and brightly in your short lives.

That the world is so awful there can be no God and any pretence to the contrary is just a cowardly delusion. Encouraged by the corrupt elites, human beings are so stupid, so weak and so gullible as to believe anything. So unlike your good selves.

Even the appalling Richard Dawkins, whom many of you seem to regard with such affection, baulks at the emptiness of this vision and speculates that the gift of sentient life is a reward from alien visitors.

I’ll leave you with the words of Leonard Cohen (again):

Jesus was a sailor ...only drowning men can see him...as he sinks beneath your wisdom like a stone.

Ah, the next method after outing it would appear is a kind of condescension/piss take mix.

Can’t wait for the next gripping installment of “conversion to jesus”. Coming soon to a thread near you.

We don’t agree with you, we don’t believe what you believe, get over it, move on.

Oh wait, you god demands that you try and convert us sorry I forgot. Hmmm, how to deal with that little gem.

Anyone got any suggestions?

 

[mcfc92lad]

Chill Winston

 

[ElanJo]

Even the appalling Richard Dawkins, whom many of you seem to regard with such affection, baulks at the emptiness of this vision and speculates that the gift of sentient life is a reward from alien visitors.

.

Not like a creationist to misrepresent someone else's views...

With every post you make you bring to light more and more what a dishonest, empty-headed, moron you really are.

 

[Matty]

I'm not sure I'd use the words virulent and unreasoning to describe me but 'atheist' would be pretty accurate. I'd be interested to hear your 'reasoned' argument FOR the existance of God though.

I did say "some". If you say so, I'm sure your good self together with Joycee Banercheck and many more unbelievers are exemplars in terms of courage, virtue, tolerance, honesty and intellectual rigour. It just seems odd that you express your views the way you do and also complain about me using the memetic terminology created by the appalling Dawkins & his ilk.

If you want a reasoned argument opposing atheology try Plantinga: God, Freedom & Evil or Swinburne: Is There A God?

All 'reasoned' arguments regarding the existance of God lose me when the "a magic man did it" line is used. I'm also not particularly enamoured with the "I don't have to have any proof, it's called having faith" argument comes to the fore. That's basically a cop out, if there's no way to prove something, or if the arguments against it become too strong suddenly it's a matter of faith and that, apparently, wins the argument. This isn't top trumps, there isn't some all powerful card you can play that guarentees victory. The faith position is simply a fall back when all common sense and logic would indicate you are very, very wrong.

Your epistemology is very weak I'm afraid. Read the books (no magic men guaranteed).

So, do these books advocate that God does exist? Yes or No? If the answer is 'yes' then I assume they attribute the creation of the Earth and all things therein to him in some way or another? If, as I suspect, the answer is again 'yes' then that's "a magic man did it". Those words may not be used specifically but to believe in God's existence is to believe that he "created the heavens and the Earth".

Please don't respond with "read the books", I was brought up Catholic, spent my entire childhood education, from about 5 or 6 until 18 attending Catholic schools and college, and was dragged to church every weekend until I was about 16 and given the choice of attending or not (I went with not). I don't need to read a book to give me a view on God, I've got mine sorted thanks.

Oh yeah, and using long words like 'epistemology' doesn't make you intelligent, it makes you a smart-ass who's trying to prove their superiority by trying to make others feel lacking. My 'epistemology' is perfectly fine thanks, I gathered my knowledge on the matter through a Christian upbringing, social interaction and a good grounding in common sense. Explain to me how that is "very weak" yet if I'd read a couple of books by people predetermined to making me believe in the existance of God that would make my 'epistemology' strong?

 

[Matty]

The Bible enjoins us to “try to give a reason for the hope that is in you”.

I kicked off this thread to counter and to give an opportunity for reflection to some of those strident voices I encountered in, The Genius of Charles Darwin & The God Delusion, No Blue Heaven For ElanJo, Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, Did Darwin Kill God? God Is Not A Jerk? and (most recently and memorably)
Is Religion a Load of Balls?

Well farewell my foolish fellow blues. I wish you God speed but hardly bon voyage.
You clearly find the prospect of the journey to purposeless oblivion an attractive proposition.

Some of you proudly believe that generations of the faithful throughout the world have simply failed to notice what you have all grasped so quickly, bravely and brightly in your short lives.

That the world is so awful there can be no God and any pretence to the contrary is just a cowardly delusion. Encouraged by the corrupt elites, human beings are so stupid, so weak and so gullible as to believe anything. So unlike your good selves.

Even the appalling Richard Dawkins, whom many of you seem to regard with such affection, baulks at the emptiness of this vision and speculates that the gift of sentient life is a reward from alien visitors.

I’ll leave you with the words of Leonard Cohen (again):

Jesus was a sailor ...only drowning men can see him...as he sinks beneath your wisdom like a stone.

What self serving bollocks.

The Bible is a 2000 year old book based on 2nd and 3rd hand information, hearsay and propoganda. It was written by uneducated men, in a time when man knew FAR less than he does now. The entire concept of Religion is something man created for himself at a time when his knowledge and intelect wasn't capable of explaining what is now easily accounted for. Religion was a scary stick used to beat the uneducated by the wealthy and intelligent so they could continue to live their lives of luxury. Religion was something created by the scared, those who couldn't accept that life began and ended and that was it. It is the arrogance of man that has lead to the belief in 'heaven'. We are far too intelligent, too powerful, too important for death to simply be 'it'. There just MUST be something else out their, some greater meaning. Dogs, cats, horses? Oh, they die and that's it. There's no 'horse heaven'. That's because they're not as 'important' as we are.

The 'generations of the faithful' have chosen to believe in God and an afterlife for one of the reasons already mentioned, lack of intelligence, a way to keep themselves in their place in the hierarchy or a fear of not believing. If you don't believe in God then there's no heaven for you, oh no, there's pergatory, there's limbo, there's hell. Scare people enough and they'll believe anything you tell them to.

Maybe we don't see the lack of an afterlife as 'purposeless oblivion'. Maybe WE aren't the ones with it all wrong. Why spend your short time alive aiming for something that happens after you're dead? Or may not even happen at all? Why not live your life the best you can, treat every day as special and be happy with that? I for one don't need a promise of something better, something wonderful after I'm dead to allow me to live.

 

[Swales lives]

Johnny Crossan - do you want to buy some Betamax video cassettes, that I've got for sale?
They will work in a DVD player, honest.

 

[BimboBob]

The bible was written at least 300 years after the events took place,if they ever did.It was passed down by word of mouth mainly.
It was also a mash up of loads of stories that had been submitted.Some were kept,some were omitted depending on the taste of the Roman Emperor(Constantine i think).He had been newly converted to Christianity and wanted to quell any uprisings/mutinies/rebellions that could have taken place.

Lets get this straight...

There is more Historical fact that King Arthur existed than there is about Jesus.Sure,there may or may not have been a person wandering around preaching and doing good.But that's the trouble with stories of old.Chinese whispers.Say...did you hear about that bloke who wandered through our village last week?No...what happened?He only turned water into wine.Well fuck my old boots...did you see it happen?No...but big dave from the pub said he saw it.Righto...

The trouble with Christianity is that a lot of the teachings have been nicked from older religions.Resurrection?A pagan god did that.Sign of the cross?Another pagan ritual.Crucifiction?Not wildly practiced in roman times but even when they did they didn't nail anything to anything else.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

The Bible enjoins us to “try to give a reason for the hope that is in you”.

I kicked off this thread to counter and to give an opportunity for reflection to some of those strident voices I encountered in, The Genius of Charles Darwin & The God Delusion, No Blue Heaven For ElanJo, Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, Did Darwin Kill God? God Is Not A Jerk? and (most recently and memorably)
Is Religion a Load of Balls?

Well farewell my foolish fellow blues. I wish you God speed but hardly bon voyage.
You clearly find the prospect of the journey to purposeless oblivion an attractive proposition.

Some of you proudly believe that generations of the faithful throughout the world have simply failed to notice what you have all grasped so quickly, bravely and brightly in your short lives.

That the world is so awful there can be no God and any pretence to the contrary is just a cowardly delusion. Encouraged by the corrupt elites, human beings are so stupid, so weak and so gullible as to believe anything. So unlike your good selves.

Even the appalling Richard Dawkins, whom many of you seem to regard with such affection, baulks at the emptiness of this vision and speculates that the gift of sentient life is a reward from alien visitors.

I’ll leave you with the words of Leonard Cohen (again):

Jesus was a sailor ...only drowning men can see him...as he sinks beneath your wisdom like a stone.

1) You initially start a thread that by its very title has already decided the fate of those who don't share your worldview.

2) You then patronisingly castigate anyone who has the temerity to oppose your infantile beliefs.

3) At no point do you ever rationalise or attempt to quantify the existance of a superior being,other than a few random throwaway soundbites condemning Dawkins - a man of great intellect and intelligence who could run rings around you and your mystical hocus-pocus.

4) You quote some ageing and increasingly irrelevent rock star who has "found" more different "gods" in his life than i've had hot dinners - who exactly gives a toss what some drone-voiced old fart has-been thinks about god or indeed anything else.

5) You sign off with some pious diatribe oozing crocodile tears regarding our religious "blindness" - here's the news mate - we neither worry nor care about you ludicrous Narnia of fairy stories.

6) Your irrational and supine belief system is responsible for more premature deaths in this world than any single cause other than the mosquito. It is behind the suppresion of women,it is homophobic,it has created civil unrest since time began.
We have not had one second of civilization free from a religious conflict somewhere in the world since the inception of your nonsensical and hate-filled doctrinal toilet-paper,sorry,the bible.

7) Has there ever been a war declared by atheists on believers?
No - and yet you allegedly "superior" christians have commited wholesale massacres on almost every civilization on the planet for the simple crime of disagreeing with you.

8) Carry on your juvenile suspension of logic if it makes you happy - just don't expect those of us who deal in reality to join your happy-clappy bandwagon.

 

[Zubrman]

Can we not just accept the pamphlet and pop it in the recycle bin after he's gone?