Should National Service be mandatory ?

Blue Maverick said:
Wouldn’t take long to train me up, I can still remember my rifle drills 25 years after leaving I can take orders without crying to my mum and I know hurty words don’t really matter.
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can you explain the differences between the L85A1 and the A3 variant? Are you as fit now as you were 25 years ago?
 
what I am seeing on here is an amazing blue on blue attack that is totally unjustified.

1/ People who spent and entire working life paying into a workplace pension scheme on agreed terms are being vilified for receiving it.
2/ Those who are angry mostly don't seem to have a decent pension arrangement. However a workplace pension has been mandatory for 13 years - unless of course you opt out.
3/ people whjo have failed to make plans and are crashing towards retirement are realising a big SUV, two long haul holidays and a skiing holiday may not have been a good idea.
 
Monkfish said:
No, the young people need help, not the older generation who filled their boots bankrupted the country then pulled up the drawbridge
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Every generation faces their challenges, but the next generation only seems to see the hard bitten victories that were scraped by the work and tenacity to keep going, regardless.

Colour me a FOC, but I remember the days when you just sacrificed whatever it took to make ends meet (you don’t need the sob stories, so I’ll spare you).

What I see and hear now is people that have things I never dreamed of as a youngster, let alone young adult, yet claiming they are being ground for FOC dinner sausage!

£1,000 iPhone? Done.
Getting pissed every weekend? Done.
Latest clobber? Done.
Smoking 2 packs a day? Done.
Body full of tattoos? Done.

I won’t add to the list of wasteful spending that would never have happened back in the day, nor will I minimize the plight of those who really are on the bottom rungs of the ladder. But, I will say that like millions of other successful people from Britain, I buckled down, worked hard at school, sought continuous improvement for myself and my situation, and AFTER 60 FUCKING YEARS OF GRAFT I have a couple of quid to look forward to spending in my EARNED retirement.

No-one GAVE me a job. In fact, no-one gave me anything other than the gift of being born in a country with clean water, clean air, “free” healthcare, free education, good public transportation, and parents who showed me what hard work was and expected it of me…you know, what they call “white probilege” now, I guess?!

At one point, I was living in the States with $5 to my name. Thankfully, I had a gf (now wife of 40 yrs) who believed in me enough to look past all that and fed me with the money she earned as a lifeguard in the summers, while I helped her with school work and did her Computer Science project!! A very good exchange as it turned out!!

There are no free rides for 90+% of us, but some of us think the world owes us something and don’t figure out that they’re pretty much on their own until it feels too late, even if it isn’t. I thank my parents for giving me the GIFT OF EXPECTATION…theirs, mine and society’s.

As I mentioned above, every generation believes “No-one knows the trouble I’ve seen,” but that’s only because we have such short memories and haven’t lived the 40+ years of sacrifice and saving that other generations have faced.

As the world turns, and all that!

And, fwiw, as a 62 yr old, I’ve also spent the last decade wondering how I was going to retire, how fucking expensive the Boomers made everything from houses to healthcare, and when “my time” was going to be after a lifetime of effort!

Well, everything is relative, so I guess I have to count myself as lucky even though I lived an adult life raising a family through the internet bubble in 2000, 9/11/2001, a company bankruptcy(2002), the loss of my pension(2004), GFC of 2008, COVID, Trump 45 & 47…and mandatory retirement in 2028…even if I did sacrifice for 40 yrs of work life to raise that family, pay for college, and “enjoy” the delayed gratification of vacations, new cars, a decent house, and everything else us FOCs have supposedly taken for ourselves!
 
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ChicagoBlue said:
Every generation faces their challenges, but the next generation only seems to see the hard bitten victories that were scraped by the work and tenacity to keep going, regardless.

Colour me a FOC, but I remember the days when you just sacrificed whatever it took to make ends meet (you don’t need the dob stories, so I’ll spare you).

What I see and hear now is people that have things I never dreamed of as a youngster, let alone young adult, yet claiming they are being ground for FOC dinner sausage!

£1,000 iPhone? Done.
Getting pissed every weekend? Done.
Latest clobber? Done.
Smoking 2 packs a day? Done.
Body full of tattoos? Done.

I won’t add to the list of wasteful spending that would never have happened back in the day, nor will I minimize the plight of those who really are on the bottom rungs of the ladder. But, I will say that like millions of other successful people from Britain, I buckled down, worked hard at school, sought continuous improvement for myself and my situation, and AFTER 60 FUCKING YEARS OF GRAFT I have a couple of quid to look forward to spending in my EARNED retirement.

No-one GAVE me a job. In fact, no-one gave me anything other than the gift of being born in a country with clean water, clean air, “free” healthcare, free education, good public transportation, and parents who showed me what hard work was and expected it of me.

At one point, I was living in the States with $5 to my name. Thankfully, I had a gf (now wife of 40 yrs) who believed in me enough to look past all that and fed me with the money she earned as a lifeguard in the summers.

There are no free rides for 90+% of us, but some of us think the world owes us something and don’t figure out that they’re pretty much on their own. I thank my parents for giving me the GIFT OF EXPECTATIONS…theirs, mine and society’s.

As I mentioned above, every generations believes “No-one knows the trouble I’ve seen,” but that’s only because we have such short memories and haven’t lived the 40+ years of sacrifice and saving that other generations have faced.

As the world turns, and all that!

And, fwiw, as a 62 yr old, I’ve also spent the last decade wondering how I was going to retire, how fucking expensive the Boomers made everything from houses to healthcare, and when “my time” was going to be after a lifetime of effort!

Well, everything is relative, so I guess I have to count myself as lucky given the internet bubble in 2000, 9/11/2001, a company bankruptcy(2002), the loss of my pension(2004), GFC of 2008, COVID, Trump 45 & 47…and mandatory retirement in 2028…even if I did sacrifice for 40 yrs of work life, to raise a family, pay for college and the delayed gratification of vacations, new cars, big houses, and everything else us FOCs have supposedly taken for ourselves!
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There seemed to be a real change after the 2nd World War where those that had gone through real conflict came together to build their countries. After that we seem to have a generation that had it that little bit easier, and further generations losing out substantially.

The social system has changed, massively, and its only those that have been given the opportunity to fail, that get through.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
There seemed to be a real change after the 2nd World War where those that had gone through real conflict came together to build their countries. After that we seem to have a generation that had it that little bit easier, and further generations losing out substantially.

The social system has changed, massively, and its only those that have been given the opportunity to fail, that get through.
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They don’t call them The Greatest Generation for nothing. And, to see the propaganda videos of the day, and most of the films of the era (50’s & 60’s), it was fucking brilliant!

The 70’s have a lot to answer for, if you ask me!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
They don’t call them The Greatest Generation for nothing. And, to see the propaganda videos of the day, and most of the films of the era (50’s & 60’s), it was fucking brilliant!

The 70’s have a lot to answer for, if you ask me!
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Like many, I was brought up in that era of parents who tried to build their businesses, working multiple jobs to secure their future. But we still had a sense of ‘protection’ for the little islands off the coast of mainland Europe.

Must’ve been my Grandads influence to take me to where I am now.
 
BlueRockape said:
Take no notice the kid is an idiot
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I wasn’t imposing the attitude on anyone in particular, but more like the attitude of many in every generation.

People today think they have it bad, yet my parents grew up listening to buzz bombs whizzing by and listening to bombs drop down the street from their shelter in the backyard.

Everything is relative and when pointing backwards, we can all cherry pick something that fits our narrative. My greater point is that no matter how it looks to a 20 yr old, they would struggle to fully understand what the 60 yr old went through to get where they are today, even if they tried their damnedest.

For example, the flashiest guy you know might be leveraged to the hilt and one paycheck from bankruptcy, while the guy living in the modest house down the street and driving the 10 year old Honda could well be the millionaire next door!

We have to be very careful when we generalize, let alone attempt specificity, because we usually don’t know, and can’t know, the experiences that created their today.
 
Had a quick read of some comments; whilst I commend any of the older generation who grafted to build themselves a comfortable life, I don't think it's unfair to say that the current generation (those just leaving school for the big bad world) are going to be hamstrung financially, in comparison to their forebears. The average salary in the UK is ~35k and the average house price is ~300k. For a young person, those two figures are incompatible with a smooth start in life. They just don't go. It's easy to typecast the younger generation as entitled and lazy; but try advising a young person how to put together a deposit and they will laugh in your face, not because of some generational aloofness, rather, because it's tantamount to impossible for them. It was much easier for past generations to lay the bedrock of a homelife and a family.

Factor that, and then ask yourself why some of the younger generation wouldn't want NS? The answer is because the potential sacrifice just wouldn't be worth it for them. And frankly, they'd be fucking right.
 
Blue and true said:
Had a quick read of some comments; whilst I commend any of the older generation who grafted to build themselves a comfortable life, I don't think it's unfair to say that the current generation (those just leaving school for the big bad world) are going to be hamstrung financially, in comparison to their forebears. The average salary in the UK is ~35k and the average house price is ~300k. For a young person, those two figures are incompatible with a smooth start in life. They just don't go. It's easy to typecast the younger generation as entitled and lazy; but try advising a young person how to put together a deposit and they will laugh in your face, not because of some generational aloofness, rather, because it's tantamount to impossible for them. It was much easier for past generations to lay the bedrock of a homelife and a family.

Factor that, and then ask yourself why some of the younger generation wouldn't want NS? The answer is because the potential sacrifice just wouldn't be worth it for them. And frankly, they'd be fucking right.
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The average age of a first time home buyer is increasing in the States, too. However, even in the late 90’s when I bought I was 35, married with 2 kids, and a new airline pilot with college loans and a minivan loan when we got our first house…with the absolute minimum down payment allowed. 2 yrs later, 9/11 happened, I took a 50% pay cut and lost my pension.

And???

We scrimped, saved, got out of debt as quickly as we could so we wouldn’t lose our house and, like millions of other people, lived on the ragged edge of “making it” for years!

And, my brother has a nice little house in Duki, which isn’t 300K, but it’s all he’ll ever need. On 35K, how much do you need for a deposit on a 300K house? Then, you set about doing it…or don’t and live with what YOU have settled for.

Much like the entirety of life, you just need to fight until the lights go out!
 
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