Slavery and trafficking

[BrianW]

The problem is our system is geared toward the short-term and is strongly adversarial.

This leads to short-term thinking (and non-solutions) and ya-boo politics.

This is why I favour PR voting and a continental-style parliamentary chamber instead of the type we have in Westminster where two sides face one another.

Because the only way to solve this country's issues is by sensible adult debate leading to consensus. Immigration is the classic case. No party takes a realistic line. We have to accept some immigration is necessary (because of our ageing demographics) but we could reduce it by investing in our own people. Now there's the rub. Because that investment will not be cheap. It means either higher borrowing or higher taxes, at least for a time. You might also need to invest more in AI and robotic engineering and accept that some services will be more automated. Again, this costs in the short term. You can't automate for free.

Universities are in part subsidised by high fees charged to foreign students who come in on visas. Would it be better to pay more for HE and have fewer foreign students?

It's daft to think you can just cut off the supply and then have no consequences. It's a fantasy.

 

[johnny crossan]

The problem is our system is geared toward the short-term and is strongly adversarial.

This leads to short-term thinking (and non-solutions) and ya-boo politics.

This is why I favour PR voting and a continental-style parliamentary chamber instead of the type we have in Westminster where two sides face one another.

Because the only way to solve this country's issues is by sensible adult debate leading to consensus. Immigration is the classic case. No party takes a realistic line. We have to accept some immigration is necessary (because of our ageing demographics) but we could reduce it by investing in our own people. Now there's the rub. Because that investment will not be cheap. It means either higher borrowing or higher taxes, at least for a time. You might also need to invest more in AI and robotic engineering and accept that some services will be more automated. Again, this costs in the short term. You can't automate for free.

Universities are in part subsidised by high fees charged to foreign students who come in on visas. Would it be better to pay more for HE and have fewer foreign students?

It's daft to think you can just cut off the supply and then have no consequences. It's a fantasy.

I think the current situation in a few European democracies might give pause to those who think that way.

 

[jacko74]

I'm not in favour of mass immigration. Very few people are, if any.

I'm in favour of necessary immigration. Unfortunately, all the political parties for 40 years or more have never developed a rational plan beyond anti-immigrant rhetoric. We could, for example, train more of our own people to be doctors, nurses, dentists, IT engineers and so on, but no government can be arsed. We could do more to train people in areas of skill shortage, for example, brickies, sparks, joiners, roofers, plumbers, but no government can be arsed.

We could make it easier for 'natives' to take up job opportunities in areas where the work is. Again, no government can be arsed.

We could enforce things like the minimum wage much more vigorously and with heavy penalties for non-compliance. Again, no government can be arsed.

It's so much easier to whip up hatred about foreigners, and it's a lot cheaper. But whipping up hatred solves nothing. It just creates rioting and criminal records.

BTW, ask yourself why the Tories issued visas for over 1 million immigrants in a single year. Yes, they did! Why? Not for political advantage, surely? It must have been because, they, the Tories, saw economic reasons for it. Can you deny that?

They diverted us by getting people wound up about 'the boats' who constitute about 3% of immigrants, while waving through the 97% with a smile on their faces. You need to investigate why the 97% were considered so necessary that they were granted visas. The Tories were big on rhetoric, but gave visas to 97% of all immigrants. Just have a think about that.

I don't need to think about the points you're making regarding the tories and their record on mass immigration and their reasons for being in favour of it because I'm in full agreement with you, as I'd already stated in my original comment.

I also agree that necessary immigration (such as we saw prior to the late 90's) is entirely beneficial both for the migrants and for the country they're locating to.

You still seem to be making rather contradictory points by on the one hand claiming you're "not in favour of mass immigration", yet you're still throwing around emotive words such as hatred of foreigners, racism, nativism etc at anyone (ie myself) who dares to question mass immigration.

 

[jacko74]

If there were a button for ‘this is a really bad post’, I would be pressing it here.

Or perhaps you could provide a salient and valid counterpoint rather than just a sneering glib throwaway remark?

 

[BrianW]

You still seem to be making rather contradictory points by on the one hand claiming you're "not in favour of mass immigration", yet you're still throwing around emotive words such as hatred of foreigners, racism, nativism etc at anyone (ie myself) who dares to question mass immigration.

My argument would be that it's not my side that's stirring up negative emotions for political reasons. Is that simple enough? Emotion needs taking right out of this question. People ought to focus on the practicalities. As in government generally. The thing is, practicalities are hard and don't give people a sugar rush. Emotion is easy and does.

 

[Blue Mist]

Oh well. My bump of an old post was well intentioned.
I wanted to show how an individual could help put and end to slavery.
I wanted to highlight a real problem that is in everybody's town and city. Now it's just a political argument between posters

Oh well.

 

[KS55]

Or perhaps you could provide a salient and valid counterpoint rather than just a sneering glib throwaway remark?

When you claim a poster implied x when he did nothing of the sort, you don’t deserve any response to your nonsensical word salad. “Leftie ideas”? Think again and post your own ideas rather than ascribing nonsense to others.

 

[jacko74]

When you claim a poster implied x when he did nothing of the sort, you don’t deserve any response to your nonsensical word salad. “Leftie ideas”? Think again and post your own ideas rather than ascribing nonsense to others.

Ah right, so you're not capable of providing a coherent and rational counterpoint.

No worries, we don't all possess the ability to have a reasoned debate on the nuances of a particular issue.

If there are any words your particularly struggling with in my "word salad" I'm more than happy to help you out with them.

Otherwise its fine if you'd rather limit your contribution to just lobbing in a few glib throwaway remarks, I suppose at least you know your limitations which is always a good thing.

 

[Blue Mist]

Lads, you can't agree, you've spent the last few days and many posts stating you can't agree please, leave it alone.

Slavery is organised. It is as organised as any Colombian drug gang or the Mafia.
It isn't about individuals getting below the minimum wage and employers dodging tax.
The slave gets fuck all and the 'employer' has probably never paid any tax.
I'm simply asking posters not to use car washes, nail bars etc if they look dodgy. If they have no access to toilets, no proper eating facilities, no protection from the elements, they are probably slaves.

Stop supporting slavery.