Social conservatism

urban genie said:
Being polite to women and showing them respect is just good manners and should be equally done to men and women and anyone else of whatever gender they wish to be.

Thinking women are more fragile and need protecting is just wrong and I would say insulting.

I agree with you, I have close female friend who call me every name under the sun and equally I will tell them to fuck off and insult them when they piss me off, thqt doesn't mean I go around doing it to strangers, as that would be impolite.

Also I don't presume a woman needs my help, but will offer it to be good mannered and I suppose a gentleman, if they tell me no, then I will repsect them not look dowm on them.

Having good manner isn't a product of a conservative nature either.
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I never said it was a product of conservatism, it was a general comment in reply to something another poster said, although some of the views by more left wing posters on here is concerning to say the least.

Women are more intimidated of men, generally, than the other way around, especially when alone and when it’s dark, so we should bear that in mind.

Treating women differently is to their benefit and as Phil has rightly pointed out, I wouldn’t hit a woman even if she deserved it and I would be less willing to let a female friend walk home from the pub alone, than I would a male.

I would say stuff to my male friends than I wouldn’t female and I would always offer to carry something for a female, I am not about to carry my mates cricket bag for him.

As I’ve said, it’s just small things really.

It doesn’t mean I’m purposefully rude or obnoxious to men and it doesn’t mean I don’t care about how men are too.
 
pirate said:
you specifically said you treat women better.
therefore you treat men worse than you treat women, purely based on the Thats whats wrong.

i guarantee that you are the one that started being aggressive with me not the other way around, or is DO ONE a friendly phrase in your neck of the woods
i can also guarantee that you wouldnt say do one to me in real life, but you knew that anyway didnt you keyboard warrior big snogs and kisses
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There’s a level you should treat everyone with, a minimum if you will, of kindness, compassion and with respect.

Everybody gets this when I meet them but there’s additional smaller things, such as carrying a bag or suitcase, not swearing in front of them unless I know they’re comfortable with it (in fact I don’t swear in front of men I don’t know right away either), I wouldn’t retaliate with violence, I wouldn’t let them walk home on their own at night etc. That I would offer to women.

A bloke doesn’t need walking home, not unless he’s elderly. There’s no point me carrying my mate’s suitcase, who’s the same size as me and if a bloke was attacking me, I’ll defend myself with violence as he’s more of a threat.

Men and women generally have different interests and different emotional responses, that’s not to say women are fragile and constantly need a white knight, but it’s something to bear in mind when you’re responding to someone.

Pretending men and women are exactly the same in all areas and should be treated the same in every situation, is ridiculous and does harm to women.

The respect I treat them with also includes ensuring they’re not shouted over by blokes if there’s a meeting with 8 blokes and 1 woman, I’ll make sure she gets a word in, if she’s struggling to.

I genuinely feel bad for women who have to live with a man who doesn’t treat her to a higher standard than himself. My Mrs has been told she doesn’t have to work if she doesn’t want and she never carries anything.
 
Ban-jani said:
I never said it was a product of conservatism, it was a general comment in reply to something another poster said, although some of the views by more left wing posters on here is concerning to say the least.

Women are more intimidated of men, generally, than the other way around, especially when alone and when it’s dark, so we should bear that in mind.

Treating women differently is to their benefit and as Phil has rightly pointed out, I wouldn’t hit a woman even if she deserved it and I would be less willing to let a female friend walk home from the pub alone, than I would a male.

I would say stuff to my male friends than I wouldn’t female and I would always offer to carry something for a female, I am not about to carry my mates cricket bag for him.

As I’ve said, it’s just small things really.

It doesn’t mean I’m purposefully rude or obnoxious to men and it doesn’t mean I don’t care about how men are too.
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I don't really care what you do with your friends tbh, each to their own.

I have already said in a reply that that it is good manner to speak respectfully in front of anyone and also your parents, irrespective of their gender, but if the person is happy with a more slcasual tonw of conversation that isn't bad manners but kinship and mutual respect for each other.

And your view of women is ridiculous.

My whole working team is women and none of them are intimidated by men, in fact I don't know many who are.

I have known women who could outstrip their male counterparts greatly but the attitude you are exhibiting is still too prevelent in society that they don't, women are not weaker or in need of protecting in geneal.

You do get many women who are right bastards and you get men who are right bastards.
You also get women and men who are abused and mistreared by these bastards, these need protecting and any society is duty bound to.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
I'd speak to my female mates in the same language I'd speak to my male mates. The only way in which it might be different is that there's the possibility with female mates that things could be interpreted sexually, so I'd probably be aware of that. Mate's wives and girlfriends are different, because you're not really friends with them, you're only friends by proxy, so you're obviously not going to speak to them in the same way. I wouldn't call my mate's wife a prick in the same way that I wouldn't call my colleague a prick. It's a different type of relationship. But it's not because she's a woman. Obviously everyone interacts with the opposite sex slightly differently to their own, but not everybody make a virtue out of it.
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I wasn’t making a virtue of it, I merely wrote one line suggesting I do treat the opposite sex differently and as per usual, Bluemoonski’s socialist society (that’s a joke btw) started engaging in faux outrage and made several sweeping accusations.

All I have done is back up what I meant.

Anyway, I understand what you mean. I have a friend who’s an ex colleague who’s a lesbian, really is one of the lads and loves football. I say stuff to her that I wouldn’t other women I know but I still wouldn’t call her a “****”. I don’t know why I just wouldn’t.

But we are talking generally here.
 
urban genie said:
I don't really care what you do with your friends tbh, each to their own.

I have already said in a reply that that it is good manner to speak respectfully in front of anyone and also your parents, irrespective of their gender, but if the person is happy with a more slcasual tonw of conversation that isn't bad manners but kinship and mutual respect for each other.

And your view of women is ridiculous.

My whole working team is women and none of them are intimidated by men, in fact I don't know many who are.

I have known women who could outstrip their male counterparts greatly but the attitude you are exhibiting is still too prevelent in society that they don't, women are not weaker or in need of protecting in geneal.

You do get many women who are right bastards and you get men who are right bastards.
You also get women and men who are abused and mistreared by these bastards, these need protecting and any society is duty bound to.
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You’re actually misinterpreting what I’ve said. I think there’s a handful of you who make it your mission to try and twist what I say out of some dislike, it’s odd.

My point about intimidation was in a physical sense, I said “especially if it’s dark and they’re alone”.

I didn’t mean in a fucking meeting in an office.

Our female CEO and our ex female CEO would have me for breakfast in a meeting but they’d likely feel more intimidated than I would walking home at night.

These are the subtle differences I’m talking about.

To put that into context, I usually cross the road and not walk directly behind a woman if it’s late and I’m on my way home from the pub, I wouldn’t necessarily do this for a bloke.
 
Ban-jani said:
There’s a level you should treat everyone with, a minimum if you will, of kindness, compassion and with respect.

Everybody gets this when I meet them but there’s additional smaller things, such as carrying a bag or suitcase, not swearing in front of them unless I know they’re comfortable with it (in fact I don’t swear in front of men I don’t know right away either), I wouldn’t retaliate with violence, I wouldn’t let them walk home on their own at night etc. That I would offer to women.

A bloke doesn’t need walking home, not unless he’s elderly. There’s no point me carrying my mate’s suitcase, who’s the same size as me and if a bloke was attacking me, I’ll defend myself with violence as he’s more of a threat.

Men and women generally have different interests and different emotional responses, that’s not to say women are fragile and constantly need a white knight, but it’s something to bear in mind when you’re responding to someone.

Pretending men and women are exactly the same in all areas and should be treated the same in every situation, is ridiculous and does harm to women.

The respect I treat them with also includes ensuring they’re not shouted over by blokes if there’s a meeting with 8 blokes and 1 woman, I’ll make sure she gets a word in, if she’s struggling to.

I genuinely feel bad for women who have to live with a man who doesn’t treat her to a higher standard than himself. My Mrs has been told she doesn’t have to work if she doesn’t want and she never carries anything.
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i dont really know what to say to this.
your own words highlight why you are wrong
i will take a few examples for you.
Walking a woman home, i too would do this if i thought they were in any way vulnerable, but unlike you i would also do this with my male friends if i thought they were vulnerable. You are assuming the women are vulnerable because they are women.
Carrying a bag. Again I too would carry a bag for a woman if i was stronger and they were struggling, but unlike you i would also do this for a male friend if i was stronger and they were struggling
I try to include everyone in a conversation regardless of being a man or a womnen
 
pirate said:
i dont really know what to say to this.
your own words highlight why you are wrong
i will take a few examples for you.
Walking a woman home, i too would do this if i thought they were in any way vulnerable, but unlike you i would also do this with my male friends if i thought they were vulnerable. You are assuming the women are vulnerable because they are women.
Carrying a bag. Again I too would carry a bag for a woman if i was stronger and they were struggling, but unlike you i would also do this for a male friend if i was stronger and they were struggling
I try to include everyone in a conversation regardless of being a man or a womnen
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Yes because you want a society that doesn’t differentiate between the sexes.

We are talking generally here.

I did say if the man was elderly I would do it. If my mate had an injury or was disabled, I’d carry his bag.

What I am saying is I would offer it to every woman I come across, I wouldn’t automatically to every man.

If I see a 20/30/40/50 year old bloke, who looks reasonably fit and healthy, carrying a suitcase on to a train, I’m not going to offer to do it for him. He’d think I was barking mad.

I would to a woman of any age.

If a man was vulnerable, maybe as I’ve described before, elderly for example, then yes, I’d make sure he got home alright too.

But I wouldn’t for your average bloke who is of fitness and health, but I would for ALL women.

I honestly cannot fathom what’s wrong with any of that. There isn’t, you’re just being purposefully difficult.
 
Ban-jani said:
Yes because you want a society that doesn’t differentiate between the sexes.

We are talking generally here.

I did say if the man was elderly I would do it. If my mate had an injury or was disabled, I’d carry his bag.

What I am saying is I would offer it to every woman I come across, I wouldn’t automatically to every man.

If I see a 20/30/40/50 year old bloke, who looks reasonably fit and healthy, carrying a suitcase on to a train, I’m not going to offer to do it for him. He’d think I was barking mad.

I would to a woman of any age.

If a man was vulnerable, maybe as I’ve described before, elderly for example, then yes, I’d make sure he got home alright too.

But I wouldn’t for your average bloke who is of fitness and health, but I would for ALL women.

I honestly cannot fathom what’s wrong with any of that. There isn’t, you’re just being purposefully difficult.
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i know you cant see whats wrong with it.

but it is wrong, because all those actions assumes the woman cant look after herself simply because shes a woman.

i know you wont understand or agree with this, so should we just leave it there instead of going round and round?
 
pirate said:
i know you cant see whats wrong with it.

but it is wrong, because all those actions assumes the woman cant look after herself simply because shes a woman.

i know you wont understand or agree with this, so should we just leave it there instead of going round and round?
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Well I can honestly tell you that most of the time I offer these things I am taken up on it and even when I am not, they are very appreciative I’ve offered.

Maybe you know more than women and can speak for them though, eh?

Yeah let’s leave it there, you’re making me despair.
 
PannickAtTheDisco said:
weekly thread with left wingers asking why normal people aren't like them and then backslapping themselves about it with the usual derogatory tone until one of them hits Godwin's gammon law and they have to start yet another thread.
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Lol, it's like a gathering at a pub called 'The Losers Retreat,' vague philosophical sermons on the beauties of socialism, and the usual sniping and
disparaging of anything else. All finished off with a back slapping, self congratulatory, smug fest, that then turns to wails of frustration when
a 'Working Class' completely disregards the argument, by not voting for
any of it. What follows, is rage, followed by frustration and name calling
at this demographic, and surprise, surprise, they hear it, and give it the finger
yet again.
I couldn't be arsed trying, if the penny hasn't dropped yet, all it brings is more misery, stick to the football.
 
Ban-jani said:
You’re actually misinterpreting what I’ve said. I think there’s a handful of you who make it your mission to try and twist what I say out of some dislike, it’s odd.

My point about intimidation was in a physical sense, I said “especially if it’s dark and they’re alone”.

I didn’t mean in a fucking meeting in an office.

Our female CEO and our ex female CEO would have me for breakfast in a meeting but they’d likely feel more intimidated than I would walking home at night.

These are the subtle differences I’m talking about.

To put that into context, I usually cross the road and not walk directly behind a woman if it’s late and I’m on my way home from the pub, I wouldn’t necessarily do this for a bloke.
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Now you are just making shit up as you go along everytime someone challenges your comments you change their meaning.

At no point last night did you bring in the Physical aspect into this, you waffled about language, people disagreed you then waffled about men working harder that's why they succeed, now thise have both been shot down as bollocks you turn to the physical aspect, strangely after I just mentioned it

You are very good at using a posters reply to your advantage I will grant you that.


Also you state this was a throw away comment about men and women you originlly said in passing, yet you ended that post with some bollocks about leftwing pseudoscience, purposely inviting the debate that has since transpired, something you are also very good at, diverting a thread to a topic you want and then trying to prove your ideology is superior or right, unfortunatley you normally get shot down by most psoters, who in turn you then generalise as either commies or far left or coyrbinistas, sometime implying it was a joke because of it's ridiculousness.

Naturally posters like Myself and Rascal will never agree with you and I can say I have a bias opinion especially with conservatism and capitalism, I dislike both, but a lot of posters here are centrists and have still called you out as wrong.

Anyway it's saturday and I'm bored of this now, time to do something with my day off
 
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Ban-jani said:
1/ Belief in hetrosexual marriage - yes

2/ and rejection of same sex couples - no, the gay social conservatives say “heeeyyyyy”

3/ Reducing government and state dependency and shrinking the state - no (social not economic, read the title)

4/ Anti-abortion - absolutely, killing humans is morally reprehensible

5/ Anti-euthanasia - see above

6/ Anti- immigration unless it suits - limit it, not “anti”

7/ Belief that church and state should intertwine - not precious about this, religious freedom is more important

8/ Where they have one a devotion to the monarchy - We are better for Her Majesty

9/ Nationalism (not to be confused with patriotism) - utter piddle
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Who the fuck are you to say abortion and/or euthanasia is morally reprehensible?
 
urban genie said:
Now you are just making shit up as you go along everytime someone challenges your comments you change their meaning.

At no point last night did you bring in the Physical aspect into this, you waffled about language, people disagreed you then waffled about men working harder that's why they succeed, now thise hqve both been shot down as bollocks you turn to the physical aspect, strangely after Ixjust mentioned it

You are very good at using a posters reply to your advantage I will grant you that.


Also you state this was a throw away comment about men and women you originlly said in passing, yet you ended that post with some bollocks about leftwing pseudoscience, purposely inviting the debate that has since transpired, something you are also very good at, diverting a thread to a topic you want and then trying to prove your ideology is superior or right, unfortunatley you normally get shot down by most psoters, who in turn you then genrealise as either commies or far left or coyrbinistas, sometime implying it was a joke because of it's ridiculousness.

Naturally posters like Myself and Rascal will never agree with you and I can say I have a bias opinion especially with conservatism and capitalism, I dislike both, but a lot of poster here are centrists and still call you out as wrong.

Anywqy it's saturday and I'm bored of this now, time to do something with my day off
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Lloyd made the suggestion that conservatives keep women down because we’re somehow scared of them.

The notion that men and women are the same in all areas and it’s only society that makes them different, is a pseudoscience that has come out of the identity political crowd, which is left wing. It’s not all left wingers, but it has come out of that area of politics. For the record my mates are all Labour voters and most of them disagree with that notion and would agree with me on the how-you-treat-women debate.

Men on average do work longer hours and women have kids (yes they are different, who’d have thought) and this means careers are affected. Of course some women don’t and go to the top but generally speaking, more women choose to be homemakers and work part time than men.

None of what I’ve said is false and I stand by it. None of it has been shot down.

Rascal is a hateful bigot, I’ve no time for him. Regarding centrists, that’s because centrists typically have liberal social views and right wing economic views. Not always, but centrism in Britain is founded on liberalism, as you probably know. That’s why they disagree with me.

Anyway, enjoy your Saturday.
 
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