Southampton post match thread

[KDBestplayerintheworld]

See my response to Blueinsa.

Thanks for the scientific insights (no, I'm not being sarcastic).

However, football is one of those sports where science is subordinate to strategy, creativity, intelligence, etc. It's the whole reason why we love this sport so much. Science should play a supporting role, obviously, but not determine who should play where and when.

 

[OB1]

Not sure if it's actually the players who complain so much about it or rather the managers? Kevin De Bruyne is the prime example of a player who's being rested rather frequently but who has always insisted that if it were up to him he'd just play all of the time.
I don't want to argue with the Italian doctors talking about 80% recovery, but automatisms and flow are very important factors in football & I firmly believe that it's much more valuable to leave a good team in it's flow, rather than breaking them up every other match by bringing in 5,6,7,8 new players. A football team should be a well oiled machine. You can't create a well oiled machine if you change the parts every 5 seconds.

KDB is a prime example of a player who, largely due to circumstance, was overplayed when he first arrived and his form duly suffered.

 

[blueinsa]

This isn't about crybaby footballers though, it's about how a manager ensures his players are as fit as possible for the most important games (and how they avoid injury). If you or anyone else can refute the science that is being applied, I am all ears.

As to the comparison to other sports, it's just not relevant. I'm quite sure for example that the guys in the Tour de France are using all the sports science knowledge they can muster and I am equally sure that they are not 100% recovered each day but they are all in exactly the same boat (or on the same bike): no one gets an extra days rest...

And in tennis, it's quite clear at times that players who have had a less gruelling time in a contest get an advantage over their opponent.

Also, both those sports are essentially individual sports where player rotation is entirely irrelevant.

Each sport is different but at the highest levels, there will be an emphasis is in doing whatever is necessary to have participants in the best possible condition at the right time.

Its a funny one in that I agree with you and see your point of view entirely, its just that I think the reliance on thee sports science side of the game has become a little too much and that a sit down with a player, ask him if he is fit, ask him if he wants to play, ask him if he is ready to go out there and get it done is sometimes better than a spread sheet and a medical man saying he is at 93.76% recovery and the chance of an injury in the next game is now at 12.45% so in their opinion, a rest is advised etc etc.

Fine if the games and level of competition allow it but right now, business end of the season, go with the human approach and expect your players to want to get out there and get it done.

 

[OB1]

Thanks for the scientific insights (no, I'm not being sarcastic).

However, football is one of those sports where science is subordinate to strategy, creativity, intelligence, etc. It's the whole reason why we love this sport so much. Science should play a supporting role, obviously, but not determine who should play where and when.

The manager should decide who plays: that's his job but he will take into account a host of factors and the advice of his team. Do you know of any top football managers that do not take the medical / sports science into account?

 

[KDBestplayerintheworld]

Also, both those sports are essentially individual sports where player rotation is entirely irrelevant.

Let's take arguably the best current club team in the world, Barcelona, as an example then. How many matches a year are the MSN deliberately rested in official matches? And how often do they not turn up?
They rotate some of their defensive players, but never the creative geniuses who need to make the difference.
That's why I simply cannot understand the logic behind deliberately resting players like Silva, De Bruyne, Agüero ... and not just one, but all of them at the same time. How on earth can you expect to win a match like that?

 

[Steve68]

I'd take an 80% fit tryer over a 100% I Couldn't Give A Fuck any day.

 

[OB1]

Its a funny one in that I agree with you and see your point of view entirely, its just that I think the reliance on thee sports science side of the game has become a little too much and that a sit down with a player, ask him if he is fit, ask him if he wants to play, ask him if he is ready to go out there and get it done is sometimes better than a spread sheet and a medical man saying he is at 93.76% recovery and the chance of an injury in the next game is now at 12.45% so in their opinion, a rest is advised etc etc.

Fine if the games and level of competition allow it but right now, business end of the season, go with the human approach and expect your players to want to get out there and get it done.

Any player worth his salt will say he wants to play; which is why the manager needs to consider all the factors and pick the team. One of the reasons I am so keen to have Pep in charge is that he appears to be a guy who attends to all the details; although he's not much of a stats man, which I find a little disappointing ;-)

 

[blueinsa]

Any player worth his salt will say he wants to play; which is why the manager needs to consider all the factors and pick the team. One of the reasons I am so keen to have Pep in charge is that he appears to be a guy who attends to all the details; although he's not much of a stats man, which I find a little disappointing ;-)

Fat Sam is well known for his love of sports science in the game and utilising it in its entirety.

Of course, he doesn't have access to the players we do but still, it isnt the be all and end all is all I'm saying.

 

[KDBestplayerintheworld]

Do you know of any top football managers that do not take the medical / sports science into account?

As I just posted, science should play a supporting role but not determine everything. I couldn't say it any better than blueinsa just did with his spread sheet comment.
Science is one of the many factors to take into account, but you simply cannot justify resting the likes of KDB, Aguëro, Silva, ... all at the same time just because Delph & Bony are 7.05% more fit and 9.12% less injury prone for the moment.

 

[OB1]

Let's take arguably the best current club team in the world, Barcelona, as an example then. How many matches a year are the MSN deliberately rested in official matches? And how often do they not turn up?
They rotate some of their defensive players, but never the creative geniuses who need to make the difference.
That's why I simply cannot understand the logic behind deliberately resting players like Silva, De Bruyne, Agüero ... and not just one, but all of them at the same time. How on earth can you expect to win a match like that?

I can't comment on Barca this season as I have barely watched them - I used to watch almost every game. However, their key players used to play a lot of consecutive games under Pep but I don't think he and his staff were entirely happy about doing that and would eventually insist on a rest. The physical demands on Spanish teams are different though to Premier League ones.
City rarely rest certain players, Aguero and Toure among them but it is probably fair to say Kun was very much due a rest.