Spurs’ new stadium

[Vicmeldrew666]

I reckon that IF the major betting sites were offering only odds-on after season end in 2019 then it may help to focus the problem.
Personally I reckon they put Harry Kane in charge and he is working on ball-net things this season.

 

[JimB]

But we will be after the next game, so it was quite a petty remark in the circumstances. We are only 31.5789% into the season, but, hey, what's a percentage point or two between friends?
;-)

Not sure that I get your point?? Or was the "petty" remark a joke at your own expense?!!

If not, just to clarify, my point was that it's more than a little premature to assert that someone has "nailed it" when claiming that Spurs won't play in the new stadium this season. Surely he will only have "nailed it" if and when it is officially confirmed that Spurs won't play there this season?

 

[crazyg]

Not sure that I get your point?? Or was the "petty" remark a joke at your own expense?!!

If not, just to clarify, my point was that it's more than a little premature to assert that someone has "nailed it" when claiming that Spurs won't play in the new stadium this season. Surely he will only have "nailed it" if and when it is officially confirmed that Spurs won't play there this season?

Certainly not at my expense, and certainly not a joke, although I did try to play it down a little by putting on a smiley.
I was replying to to your remark that "We aren't even a third of the way into the season yet!", by pointing out that you will be MORE than a third of the way after the next match.
Your comment appeared to me to be rather petty, considering that almost a third of the season has gone by, and we're still no nearer finding out when this fiasco will be over. It's all right apportioning blame on who is responsible (ie everyone but us), but at the end of the day it falls on the club, and Mr Burns/Levy in particular, for setting unrealistic targets for completion.
As most posters on here with greater knowledge than I have of the Construction industry have said, there are almost always delays in major projects.
Unsurprisingly, the messages coming from the club you support have been, in my opinion, not wholly truthful on when the ground will be ready, and still refuse to give a definite date for when the first paying customers will be going through the turnstiles.

I wonder why that is?

 

[Mallorca Blue]

I wonder why that is?

Because they basically have NFI.
The costs of this project must be going through the roof.
I'm wondering now if they simply don't have the finances to get the job done quickly

 

[JPBB]

Because they basically have NFI.
The costs of this project must be going through the roof.
I'm wondering now if they simply don't have the finances to get the job done quickly

Absolutely right.

Spurs don't have the finances of City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. So what they have achieved is absolutely remarkable.

They have built a stadium as good or better than any in the world.

They have managed to stay within a few points of the best sides and remain competitive without spending big on transfers and salaries

Yes, they have been delays. Yes, they have been mistakes by all involved. Yes, the media could have been handled better.

So what?

Spurs deserve credit for what they have achieved. The sniping and moaning about it on here seems churlish. Spurs are miles away from being able to compete with City on the pitch or financially. And it is unlikely they will in the foreseeable future. Give credit where it is due and stop worrying about little ol' Spurs.

 

[mat]

The cock has been erected

Looks fuck all like Levy...

 

[Machiavelli]

Absolutely right.

Spurs don't have the finances of City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. So what they have achieved is absolutely remarkable.

They have built a stadium as good or better than any in the world.

They have managed to stay within a few points of the best sides and remain competitive without spending big on transfers and salaries

Yes, they have been delays. Yes, they have been mistakes by all involved. Yes, the media could have been handled better.

So what?

Spurs deserve credit for what they have achieved. The sniping and moaning about it on here seems churlish. Spurs are miles away from being able to compete with City on the pitch or financially. And it is unlikely they will in the foreseeable future. Give credit where it is due and stop worrying about little ol' Spurs.

Why? Your owners are worth billions!

 

[JimB]

Certainly not at my expense, and certainly not a joke, although I did try to play it down a little by putting on a smiley.
I was replying to to your remark that "We aren't even a third of the way into the season yet!", by pointing out that you will be MORE than a third of the way after the next match.
Your comment appeared to me to be rather petty, considering that almost a third of the season has gone by, and we're still no nearer finding out when this fiasco will be over. It's all right apportioning blame on who is responsible (ie everyone but us), but at the end of the day it falls on the club, and Mr Burns/Levy in particular, for setting unrealistic targets for completion.
As most posters on here with greater knowledge than I have of the Construction industry have said, there are almost always delays in major projects.
Unsurprisingly, the messages coming from the club you support have been, in my opinion, not wholly truthful on when the ground will be ready, and still refuse to give a definite date for when the first paying customers will be going through the turnstiles.

I wonder why that is?

Umm,........exactly how far we are into the season isn't the point. That I mentioned it at all was merely by way of adding colour and detail to the actual point. Therefore, for you to try to make it the point surely demonstrates pettiness on you part rather than mine? ;-)

Just for clarification, my point was simply that saying "nailed it" about a prediction that is still far from being proven either right or wrong is a tad premature.

As to setting targets, surely all organisations should set challenging targets in every sphere of their operations? Certainly, Man City do. Why not Spurs too? You do appreciate, I hope, that the original completion date was not a target that Spurs set unilaterally? They would only have set it after taking advice from MACE as to whether or not it was realistic. Clearly, MACE thought that it was. Why should a football club have tried to second guess one of the biggest and most successful construction companies in the country on matters relating to construction?

And the reason why Spurs have yet to give a definite date for the stadium's opening is simply that, having been let down once before and having thus inconvenienced and pissed off their own and other fans, they will not set a new date until they can be sure that the issue has been fully resolved. And that hasn't yet happened.

Because they basically have NFI.
The costs of this project must be going through the roof.
I'm wondering now if they simply don't have the finances to get the job done quickly

As of June 30th, net debt (having completed the great majority of the stadium, plus a new players' lodge at the training ground) was £366m. Spurs' total loan facility is £637m. So the funding to complete the stadium is very much there.

 

[JPBB]

Why? Your owners are worth billions!

Well either they don't consider Spurs to be a good investment or they don't love Spurs enough.

Even if they did want to invest in Spurs to the extent that they could compete with City they would fall foul of the financial fair play regulations because Spurs simply do not have revenue or the fanbase that City have.

 

[domalino]

Well either they don't consider Spurs to be a good investment or they don't love Spurs enough.

Even if they did want to invest in Spurs to the extent that they could compete with City they would fall foul of the financial fair play regulations because Spurs simply do not have revenue or the fanbase that City have.

I do wonder why Lewis didn't loan Spurs the money for the stadium himself. Stadium costs and other infrastructure aren't affected by FFP.

Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs and HSBC are the current creditors, I wonder how much they're charging?

 

[crazyg]

Umm,........exactly how far we are into the season isn't the point. That I mentioned it at all was merely by way of adding colour and detail to the actual point. Therefore, for you to try to make it the point surely demonstrates pettiness on you part rather than mine? ;-)

As was my reply to your statement. So why mention it in the first place if you didn't want a comeback?

 

[crazyg]

Well either they don't consider Spurs to be a good investment or they don't love Spurs enough.

Even if they did want to invest in Spurs to the extent that they could compete with City they would fall foul of the financial fair play regulations because Spurs simply do not have revenue or the fanbase that City have.

Funny, I could have sworn that Pocchetino said that Spurs were a bigger club than City.
Did Spurs vote foe FFP (serious question)?

 

[Machiavelli]

I do wonder why Lewis didn't loan Spurs the money for the stadium himself. Stadium costs and other infrastructure aren't affected by FFP.

Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs and HSBC are the current creditors, I wonder how much they're charging?

Exactly. Woe is me, we can’t afford to invest and grow the brand commercially.

Our owner has proved you can get a club performing off and on the pitch, regardless of the club’s starting point. The problem is it requires desire and investment.

 

[domalino]

Exactly. Woe is me, we can’t afford to invest and grow the brand commercially.

Our owner has proved you can get a club performing off and on the pitch, regardless of the club’s starting point. The problem is it requires desire and investment.

I think Spurs' owners sometimes get in their own way.

Levy refused a fixed price deal with the contractors, he demanded unreasonable terms RE: delivery, cost etc., and now these floods and delays are costing Spurs an incredible amount of money, not Mace. I think £200m was the last estimate.

Hundreds of millions he could have put into the squad, but was too focused on getting the stadium done as cheaply as possible.

Similarly Levy was too busy trying to be a "shrewd negotiator" with Villa in the summer that he pissed them off with low ball offers when they were in financial trouble, and then they got bought out and he got a £40m price tag. Villa would have taken 20m at the beginning of the summer.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think Spurs' owners sometimes get in their own way.

Levy refused a fixed price deal with the contractors, he demanded unreasonable terms RE: delivery, cost etc., and now these floods and delays are costing Spurs an incredible amount of money, not Mace. I think £200m was the last estimate.

Hundreds of millions he could have put into the squad, but was too focused on getting the stadium done as cheaply as possible.

My heart bleeds mate. ;)

 

[JimB]

As was my reply to your statement. So why mention it in the first place if you didn't want a comeback?

Eh? You were the one to start talking about pettiness, mate. I only mentioned it because I genuinely couldn't think why you did!

 

[JPBB]

I think Spurs' owners sometimes get in their own way.

Levy refused a fixed price deal with the contractors, he demanded unreasonable terms RE: delivery, cost etc., and now these floods and delays are costing Spurs an incredible amount of money, not Mace. I think £200m was the last estimate.

Hundreds of millions he could have put into the squad, but was too focused on getting the stadium done as cheaply as possible.

Similarly Levy was too busy trying to be a "shrewd negotiator" with Villa in the summer that he pissed them off with low ball offers when they were in financial trouble, and then they got bought out and he got a £40m price tag. Villa would have taken 20m at the beginning of the summer.

Grealish is worth £20M? I think Spurs offered much less than that. Today that seems a good decision.

The fixed price was £850m. Has the stadium cost more than that? Spurs have denied it has cost more. (Maybe they are lying)

 

[domalino]

Grealish is worth £20M? I think Spurs offered much less than that. Today that seems a good decision.

The fixed price was £850m. Has the stadium cost more than that? Spurs have denied it has cost more. (Maybe they are lying)

All of the papers are saying it's going to come in over £1Bn when the dust settles.

Spurs offered a derisory amount until Villa were taken over then offered £25m which would have gotten the player easily if it had not been preceded by Levy trying to leverage Villa's weak financial position. And while I don't like him, he's supposedly a great player now, so who knows.

 

[JimB]

I do wonder why Lewis didn't loan Spurs the money for the stadium himself. Stadium costs and other infrastructure aren't affected by FFP.

Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs and HSBC are the current creditors, I wonder how much they're charging?

There's this common misperception that all billionaires must have billions of pounds worth of spare cash lying around. The truth, of course, is very different. Joe Lewis' wealth is tied up in property and the portfolio of diverse companies that comprise his Tavistock Group. He is asset rich, not cash rich (in terms of the investment required). He could not have funded the Spurs stadium build without divesting himself of one / some of his other companies. And he clearly didn't wish to do that. Fair enough. I have no argument with that - just as I have no argument with a cash rich owner like Mansour investing billions in his football club. All a fan can really demand of an owner is that they run the club well, on and off the pitch; that they have ambition and vision; that they respect the traditions and ethos of the club; and that they don't take millions of pounds out of the club - in order to fund a leveraged buyout, for instance. Anything more is a bonus - in City's case, a fantastic bonus!

I think Spurs' owners sometimes get in their own way.

Levy refused a fixed price deal with the contractors, he demanded unreasonable terms RE: delivery, cost etc., and now these floods and delays are costing Spurs an incredible amount of money, not Mace. I think £200m was the last estimate.

Hundreds of millions he could have put into the squad, but was too focused on getting the stadium done as cheaply as possible.

Similarly Levy was too busy trying to be a "shrewd negotiator" with Villa in the summer that he pissed them off with low ball offers when they were in financial trouble, and then they got bought out and he got a £40m price tag. Villa would have taken 20m at the beginning of the summer.

- Levy didn't 'refuse' a fixed price deal. He was simply unable to secure one because of the complexity of the project. Nevertheless, Spurs will be able to claw some LADs back from the individual subcontractors responsible.

- "too focused on getting the stadium done as cheaply as possible"??? I think you need to look again, mate! Has been finished to an incredibly high level.

- Grealish was never a priority signing. Was just one of those that was worth a punt if Spurs could get him cheaply enough. Perhaps a £20m opening bid would have got him. But then, perhaps if Levy had opened the bidding at £20m, Villa would have chanced their arm and asked for £25m and the deal still wouldn't have gone through before Villa was bought out? We'll never know. Either way, it wasn't greatly important.

 

[JimB]

All of the papers are saying it's going to come in over £1Bn when the dust settles.

Ah....the papers. Must be true, then. ;-)

The quoted cost of £850m is for the greater part of the Northumberland Development Project, including some £150m worth of land acquisition; planning and development costs; construction of Lilywhite House, new shop / museum, new ticket office, public realm and hotel groundworks / basement. And the stadium, of course.