Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEASE!!!

[Mcfchamps]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Man do I miss negredo. Him and aguero were amazing and in a 4-2-2-2 we had not problems. Negredo is that bully unslefish and TECHNICAL striker we need.

 

[VinceYoungisaBLUE]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Madrid just bossed Barca with a midfield 2 of Kroos and Modric... How do we get overrun by much worse teams with a more defensive midfield 2?

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Madrid just bossed Barca with a midfield 2 of Kroos and Modric... How do we get overrun by much worse teams with a more defensive midfield 2?

Work rate and control. Kroos and Modric are both superior than Yaya in that aspect, its like playing with two yaya's without the lethargy. They are also positionally better, even if they dont tackle they position themselves better. In fact I am kind of surprised how well they have managed to pull it off, but the way they play requires both CMs to be very good at passing, positioning, work rate, stamina, composure. Something that cannot be said of ours. Kroos isn't the most mobile of CMs, and I could never have seen him succeed like this in a 2 man midfield, but he has adapted well and being technically so good and having as good a partner as Modric who is technically almost as good helps.

But that's not even the main reason, they play 442 the way its meant to be played, as a counter attacking system. Having pacy (or pacier) players in the front 4 helps and both Modric and Kroos have great passing ability to help set up the counter.

We play 442 as a possession system, and that's where we get f******. And we dont have the players to properly play it as a counter attacking system

 

[Damocles]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Madrid just bossed Barca with a midfield 2 of Kroos and Modric... How do we get overrun by much worse teams with a more defensive midfield 2?

Because the amount of bodies in a certain position tells you almost nothing about the effectiveness of their play.

If it did the 4-3-3 would never be beaten.

 

[NipHolmes]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Madrid just bossed Barca with a midfield 2 of Kroos and Modric... How do we get overrun by much worse teams with a more defensive midfield 2?

Because the amount of bodies in a certain position tells you almost nothing about the effectiveness of their play.

If it did the 4-3-3 would never be beaten.

4-3-3 is our future blueprint and just so happens to be the vest fit for our squad in many peoples opinions.

BTW, Isco was a gem yesterday and did a job being a third midfielder, left winger and second striker. Ronaldo like Robben for Bayern draws players to them and free up space for others, that's a facet of the argument I have not seen mentioned yet.

 

[BillyShears]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Madrid just bossed Barca with a midfield 2 of Kroos and Modric... How do we get overrun by much worse teams with a more defensive midfield 2?

Because the amount of bodies in a certain position tells you almost nothing about the effectiveness of their play.

If it did the 4-3-3 would never be beaten.

4-3-3 is our future blueprint and just so happens to be the vest fit for our squad in many peoples opinions.

BTW, Isco was a gem yesterday and did a job being a third midfielder, left winger and second striker. Ronaldo like Robben for Bayern draws players to them and free up space for others, that's a facet of the argument I have not seen mentioned yet.

433 isn't the best fit for our squad not by a long stretch. In fact if I had to guess, I'd say the reason both Mancini and Pellegrini almost exclusively played some variation of 442 is because we don't have the right balance in the squad to play 433.

The key for me is that if you play 433 you absolutely need world class quality in the wide forward areas. Playing 433 with Nasri/Silva types leaves the lone striker way too isolated.

Also if you want to play 433 the Barca way then we certainly don't have the numbers, nor the quality in central midfield. People keep saying we should be playing Dinho, Yaya, and Fernando together. If we did that how long before they were burned out and needed a rest and what formation do we play when that happens?

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that we shouldn't be more flexible in the way we set up, and I wish Pellegrini would be a little less predictable, but at the same time, I'm confident that since we've now had two very good manager set us up as 442 more often than not, that is because they feel that best utilises the players they have in their squad.

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Because the amount of bodies in a certain position tells you almost nothing about the effectiveness of their play.

If it did the 4-3-3 would never be beaten.

4-3-3 is our future blueprint and just so happens to be the vest fit for our squad in many peoples opinions.

BTW, Isco was a gem yesterday and did a job being a third midfielder, left winger and second striker. Ronaldo like Robben for Bayern draws players to them and free up space for others, that's a facet of the argument I have not seen mentioned yet.

433 isn't the best fit for our squad not by a long stretch. In fact if I had to guess, I'd say the reason both Mancini and Pellegrini almost exclusively played some variation of 442 is because we don't have the right balance in the squad to play 433.

The key for me is that if you play 433 you absolutely need world class quality in the wide forward areas. Playing 433 with Nasri/Silva types leaves the lone striker way too isolated.

Also if you want to play 433 the Barca way then we certainly don't have the numbers, nor the quality in central midfield. People keep saying we should be playing Dinho, Yaya, and Fernando together. If we did that how long before they were burned out and needed a rest and what formation do we play when that happens?

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that we shouldn't be more flexible in the way we set up, and I wish Pellegrini would be a little less predictable, but at the same time, I'm confident that since we've now had two very good manager set us up as 442 more often than not, that is because they feel that best utilises the players they have in their squad.

This and this although since the departure of Negredo our squad is more suited for a 4231

 

[fatbloke]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

One problem - Yaya Toure.

Technically he's probably the most gifted midfield player in Europe but his lack of stamina and work ethic make him a liability defensively in a midfield two if he's given the responsibility of playing as a box-to-box midfielder. One purely defensive midfielder is absolutely fine but he can't provide a shield in front of a back four AND win possession back, he's there to slow down opposition counter-attacks till his team mates can get back into position but with Yaya that occasionally never happens leaving Fernando or Fernandinho woefully exposed.

If you play him as the attacking midfielder or just off a front man I don't think his movement or passing is quick enough to warrant a place in the team ahead of Silva or Nasri, unless you're desperate for a goal as a different option.

 

[FeedTheGoat10]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Think what's most important is to have Silva in the number 10 role. I understand Yaya in a two man midfield doesn't always work, but at the same time we've got possibly our best player of all time and we're playing him out of position. Build a team around him and if it means Yaya misses out then so be it.

 

[bluefn]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Was having this conversation in the boozer tonight. I don't really think the formations as an argument themselves stand up, because both of them have won various leagues over the years. The idea that 442 as a formation doesn't work is a fallacy because it clearly does.

What you need to have is a system that suits your players and we are failing in this respect, certainly in Europe. An old school 4-4-2 doesn't work for us, we don't have natural wide players and generally play through the centre. Dzeko is a problem in either system, and I think is the general reason for neither formation working (442 or 4231). I'm not saying he's a bad player because he isn't, he is a natural goalscorer and comes alive in the 6 yard box. We push our fullbacks forward and you'd be surprised how many crosses we get into the box for a team that plays so centrally. That's how he gets his goals. It's hard work though, because his first touch is so bad the ball is constantly coming back to you. I play the game, and as a midfielder there is nothing worse than giving the ball into feet and going for the next ball only for it to come straight back. It's a lot of running and is why we are constantly done by any decent counter attacking team when our play keeps breaking down. We are a better team with a 5 mid field and aguero as the lone striker, with yaya given a free role behind him and the protection of the Brazilians. You can't rely on yaya to do the donkey work in the same way you don't rely on ronaldo to. He is our main man and should be treated as such. I don't think we are ready to lose the man yet, yaya playing in behind the striker is still fucking deadly and one of the best in the world in that position.

The back 4 as well pellers need not be messed with. Kola, vinnie, mangler and zabba. The others should be for cup comps and injury cover. No need to rotate, or I'll start calling you Benitez you will become another tinker-man