Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEASE!!!

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

I've already posted the following in the Pelligrini thread but in case you tactical gurus missed it I thought I'd pop it in here as well:

I think it is fair to say that Pellegrini has had more criticism on here over the last week than anytime since about a year ago. The lowest point of the season (and meltdown on here) was the away loss at Sunderland which was the 4th away loss out of the first 6 away games. This, of course, had followed on from the Munich at home debacle a few weeks earlier.

Here is a list of 15 selected away games since that defeat at Sunderland a year ago:

2013/2014
3-2 West Brom
1-1 Southampton
4-2 Fulham
3-2 Swansea
1-1 Blackburn (FAC)
2-0 Newcastle
3-0 West Ham (LC)
5-1 Spurs
0-0 Norwich
2-0 Palace
3-2 Everton

2014/2015
2-0 Newcastle
4-2 Hull
2-0 Villa
2-2 CSKA ( CL)

So that’s 15 games – 11 Wins 4 Draws and 0 losses. These are ALL the away games between Sunderland a year ago and the loss at West Ham at the weekend when Pellegrini has STARTED WITH 2 UP FRONT. Yep, the dreaded 442 he has repeatedly been slagged off for.

One other interesting stat from those 15 games was that we only ever fell behind in one of them, Everton, and that was for just 10 minutes or so. That is 10 minutes out of over 22 hours of football.

Sure, it has been a poor season so far and some criticism is valid but slagging him off for 442 and making him out as some sort of stubborn, tactical dinosaur is just rubbish IMO. Bear in mind he has increasingly started with a 1 for the more difficult games in addition to the short spell when his hand was forced. (For the record, there have been a further 9 away games in the last 12 months where he has started with 1 up top - Bayern, Leicester, Barcelona, Hull, United, Arsenal, Liverpool from last season and Arsenal and Bayern this season)

Hopefully this allays some of the shit thrown at him for using 442 away from home in the last 12 months of what has the been the most succesful sequence of away results in the entire history of Manchester City Football Club.

 

[George Hannah]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

I've already posted the following in the Pelligrini thread but in case you tactical gurus missed it I thought I'd pop it in here as well:

I think it is fair to say that Pellegrini has had more criticism on here over the last week than anytime since about a year ago. The lowest point of the season (and meltdown on here) was the away loss at Sunderland which was the 4th away loss out of the first 6 away games. This, of course, had followed on from the Munich at home debacle a few weeks earlier.

Here is a list of 15 selected away games since that defeat at Sunderland a year ago:

2013/2014
3-2 West Brom
1-1 Southampton
4-2 Fulham
3-2 Swansea
1-1 Blackburn (FAC)
2-0 Newcastle
3-0 West Ham (LC)
5-1 Spurs
0-0 Norwich
2-0 Palace
3-2 Everton

2014/2015
2-0 Newcastle
4-2 Hull
2-0 Villa
2-2 CSKA ( CL)

So that’s 15 games – 11 Wins 4 Draws and 0 losses. These are ALL the away games between Sunderland a year ago and the loss at West Ham at the weekend when Pellegrini has STARTED WITH 2 UP FRONT. Yep, the dreaded 442 he has repeatedly been slagged off for.

One other interesting stat from those 15 games was that we only ever fell behind in one of them, Everton, and that was for just 10 minutes or so. That is 10 minutes out of over 22 hours of football.

Sure, it has been a poor season so far and some criticism is valid but slagging him off for 442 and making him out as some sort of stubborn, tactical dinosaur is just rubbish IMO. Bear in mind he has increasingly started with a 1 for the more difficult games in addition to the short spell when his hand was forced. (For the record, there have been a further 9 away games in the last 12 months where he has started with 1 up top - Bayern, Leicester, Barcelona, Hull, United, Arsenal, Liverpool from last season and Arsenal and Bayern this season)

Hopefully this allays some of the shit thrown at him for using 442 away from home in the last 12 months of what has the been the most succesful sequence of away results in the entire history of Manchester City Football Club.

just think how well we could have one without the two up front default mode!

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

just think how well we could have one without the two up front default mode!

Ha...was expecting that!

 

[NQCitizen]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Bayern absolutely destroyed Barca a couple of years back using a two up top and often use Muller in an advanced role. Atletico Madrid played two up top much of the time last year and won La Liga. We ourselves won the league playing two up top. Juventus trounced Serie A using Tevez and Llorente up front.

Every major league in Europe was won by a team who plays with two up front either as their main system or as one which they often switch two.

There is this fashion to say things like "the 4-4-2 is old fashioned" which is totally bollocks. Formations and styles aren't the be-all and end-all of football and there's no right or wrong way to set up. Look at the difference in how we're playing this and last season and we're playing the same formation.

Saying that a certain formation doesn't "work" is like saying that a certain musical note doesn't work. It's just daft and the obsession around a set of numbers describing where players stand on the pitch is just puzzling. I genuinely blame FIFA and Football Manager for this type of stuff.

With Bayern:
1) they had technical strikers who dont lose possession and are both intelligent. Dzeko today compromised us in a lot of dangerous positions.

With Athletico:
2) work rate, 2 really hard working CMs. A counter attacking system where everyone works their socks off and built on defense. We simply dont have CM's or even WM's of these type.

442 itself inst to blame, its the way we play or use the personnel in this system combined with the tactics that is costing us

You pick a formation to suit players we have. 4-3-3 shores us up.

I get how 4-2-3-1 works really well, but where does Silva go in a 4-3-3? On the wing (wasted) or deeper in the middle (pretty much leaving us with a 2 man midfield again). Plus we don't really have any true wingers for that formation bar one sub.

 

[Rösler von Stretfordbömber]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

I've already posted the following in the Pelligrini thread but in case you tactical gurus missed it I thought I'd pop it in here as well:

I think it is fair to say that Pellegrini has had more criticism on here over the last week than anytime since about a year ago. The lowest point of the season (and meltdown on here) was the away loss at Sunderland which was the 4th away loss out of the first 6 away games. This, of course, had followed on from the Munich at home debacle a few weeks earlier.

Here is a list of 15 selected away games since that defeat at Sunderland a year ago:

2013/2014
3-2 West Brom
1-1 Southampton
4-2 Fulham
3-2 Swansea
1-1 Blackburn (FAC)
2-0 Newcastle
3-0 West Ham (LC)
5-1 Spurs
0-0 Norwich
2-0 Palace
3-2 Everton

2014/2015
2-0 Newcastle
4-2 Hull
2-0 Villa
2-2 CSKA ( CL)

So that’s 15 games – 11 Wins 4 Draws and 0 losses. These are ALL the away games between Sunderland a year ago and the loss at West Ham at the weekend when Pellegrini has STARTED WITH 2 UP FRONT. Yep, the dreaded 442 he has repeatedly been slagged off for.

One other interesting stat from those 15 games was that we only ever fell behind in one of them, Everton, and that was for just 10 minutes or so. That is 10 minutes out of over 22 hours of football.

Sure, it has been a poor season so far and some criticism is valid but slagging him off for 442 and making him out as some sort of stubborn, tactical dinosaur is just rubbish IMO. Bear in mind he has increasingly started with a 1 for the more difficult games in addition to the short spell when his hand was forced. (For the record, there have been a further 9 away games in the last 12 months where he has started with 1 up top - Bayern, Leicester, Barcelona, Hull, United, Arsenal, Liverpool from last season and Arsenal and Bayern this season)

Hopefully this allays some of the shit thrown at him for using 442 away from home in the last 12 months of what has the been the most succesful sequence of away results in the entire history of Manchester City Football Club.

It won't.

After all, some media "pundit" at some point decided that this was a problem and apparently "we all" see this here as well.

Interestingly, the "problem" used to be that we can't play two up top away in Europe against the Uber-clubs. Then it was against the "top" clubs in Europe. Then it was EVERY CLUB in Europe. And now, increasingly, anywhere away in the EPL.

Hopefully there is no fluke result in the League Cup at home against the horse-punchers. Because that then will mean that what we "all" recognise is that you can not play two strikers against any club even at home in cup competitions. Failure on the part of Pellers to adhere to the evolving conventional wisdom will be ample cause to opine that he does not know what he is doing/is naive/stubborn/a member of ISIS.

 

[NipHolmes]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

I've already posted the following in the Pelligrini thread but in case you tactical gurus missed it I thought I'd pop it in here as well:

I think it is fair to say that Pellegrini has had more criticism on here over the last week than anytime since about a year ago. The lowest point of the season (and meltdown on here) was the away loss at Sunderland which was the 4th away loss out of the first 6 away games. This, of course, had followed on from the Munich at home debacle a few weeks earlier.

Here is a list of 15 selected away games since that defeat at Sunderland a year ago:

2013/2014
3-2 West Brom
1-1 Southampton
4-2 Fulham
3-2 Swansea
1-1 Blackburn (FAC)
2-0 Newcastle
3-0 West Ham (LC)
5-1 Spurs
0-0 Norwich
2-0 Palace
3-2 Everton

2014/2015
2-0 Newcastle
4-2 Hull
2-0 Villa
2-2 CSKA ( CL)

So that’s 15 games – 11 Wins 4 Draws and 0 losses. These are ALL the away games between Sunderland a year ago and the loss at West Ham at the weekend when Pellegrini has STARTED WITH 2 UP FRONT. Yep, the dreaded 442 he has repeatedly been slagged off for.

One other interesting stat from those 15 games was that we only ever fell behind in one of them, Everton, and that was for just 10 minutes or so. That is 10 minutes out of over 22 hours of football.

Sure, it has been a poor season so far and some criticism is valid but slagging him off for 442 and making him out as some sort of stubborn, tactical dinosaur is just rubbish IMO. Bear in mind he has increasingly started with a 1 for the more difficult games in addition to the short spell when his hand was forced. (For the record, there have been a further 9 away games in the last 12 months where he has started with 1 up top - Bayern, Leicester, Barcelona, Hull, United, Arsenal, Liverpool from last season and Arsenal and Bayern this season)

Hopefully this allays some of the shit thrown at him for using 442 away from home in the last 12 months of what has the been the most succesful sequence of away results in the entire history of Manchester City Football Club.

It won't.

After all, some media "pundit" at some point decided that this was a problem and apparently "we all" see this here as well.

Interestingly, the "problem" used to be that we can't play two up top away in Europe against the Uber-clubs. Then it was against the "top" clubs in Europe. Then it was EVERY CLUB in Europe. And now, increasingly, anywhere away in the EPL.

Hopefully there is no fluke result in the League Cup at home against the horse-punchers. Because that then will mean that what we "all" recognise is that you can not play two strikers against any club even at home in cup competitions. Failure on the part of Pellers to adhere to the evolving conventional wisdom will be ample cause to opine that he does not know what he is doing/is naive/stubborn/a member of ISIS.

Going forward last year we had a sublime partnership of Negredo and Aguero, Dzeko stepped up when needed and we were potent from midfield also.

Yaya isn't the kind of player now that can run box to box, score goals, screen play and spray balls everywhere with precision, He can do each task, but not all of them for a full game and there are times when he leaves us vulnerable hence his liability tag which stems from his defensive frailties.

The 4-2-2-2 is a workable formation for sure, but with the right players. Vidal partnered with Fernandinho and a rapid quality winger like Robben, Bale, Tranny, Reus.

Newcastle have hurt us on breaks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,again! How many fucking times must we keep conceding before people see this. We have been prone to it since Mancini but with our more expansive attacking football we are even more vulnerable to it. Couple the ever changing backline and it's a recipe for utter disaster. Our play is too narrow, Newcastle play with 2 banks of 4 that turns into a 6-2-2 when they defend. We have no asnwers and we make their players look like superstars, fucking Obertan ffs, he had a pearler of a game because he was allowed to and he is utter shite.

If it smells like shit, tastes like shit, looks like shit and feels like shit then it probably is shit. The 4-2-2-2 for us, right now is the absolute epitome of shit.

 

[cibaman]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

It was noticeable that we looked more solid and had a better defensive shape on Sunday despite still playing basically with two up front. Jovetic played a bit deeper than does Dzeko when he partners Aguero, but it certainly wasnt a three man midfield. But then Silva wasnt playing. Yaya cops most of the crticism for our defensive failings in midfield. But Silva is a just as much a defensive liability except when he is playing behind a single striker. He drifts about leaving acres of space behind him, particularly on our left flank.

If we had two very mobile central midfielders it wouldnt be such a problem, they might be expected to cover the space he leaves. Buy Yaya was never particularly mobile, capable of getting across to help cut out attacks down the flanks. As he gets older he's even less mobile. We're effectively asking Fernando or Fernandhino to take on the main defensive midfield duties and cover the space left by Silva. Not surprisingly any half decent counter attacking team can exploit the spaces we leave.

Yaya and Silva are two of the best creative midfield players in the game. If available they need to be in the team. But to play both of them and a second striker just leaves us too open against the better teams, (increasingly too open against the average teams).

Yaya + Silva + 2nd striker = attacking heaven

Yaya + Silva + 2nd striker = defensive hell

 

[Jazzman]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

I have something which is probably a stupid question. Do we actually apply the same tactics in all our teams? I had thought that we try to make all the youth teams play the same kind of football, similar to what Barcelona does.

 

[uwe rosler 28]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Would love manuel to try this 1 game
.....................................hart................................

zaba.................vinny..............mdm.............kola/clichy

........,................nando.........lamps/fern...........milner

silva.............................yaya.......................................

....................................aguero.................................

left hand side of our defence is weakest so milner left mid to offer some cover think we can get away with silva on the right floating as the right hand side of our defence is quite strong also think yaya could destroy teams in a more advanced role and lamps in center mid to make sure we keep hold of the ball with fernando protecting!

 

[cheddar404]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Would love manuel to try this 1 game
.....................................hart................................

zaba.................vinny..............mdm.............kola/clichy

........,................nando.........lamps/fern...........milner

silva.............................yaya.......................................

....................................aguero.................................

left hand side of our defence is weakest so milner left mid to offer some cover think we can get away with silva on the right floating as the right hand side of our defence is quite strong also think yaya could destroy teams in a more advanced role and lamps in center mid to make sure we keep hold of the ball with fernando protecting!

I'd prefer
..................................hart..................................

Zaba.............Vinny..............mdm...............kola/clichy

..............................Fernando..................................

Nasri............Yaya............Fernandinho...........Milner

.............................Silva......................................

............................Aguero...............................