Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEASE!!!

[Damocles]

Re: 442 Must Go

Bayern absolutely destroyed Barca a couple of years back using a two up top and often use Muller in an advanced role. Atletico Madrid played two up top much of the time last year and won La Liga. We ourselves won the league playing two up top. Juventus trounced Serie A using Tevez and Llorente up front.

Every major league in Europe was won by a team who plays with two up front either as their main system or as one which they often switch two.

There is this fashion to say things like "the 4-4-2 is old fashioned" which is totally bollocks. Formations and styles aren't the be-all and end-all of football and there's no right or wrong way to set up. Look at the difference in how we're playing this and last season and we're playing the same formation.

Saying that a certain formation doesn't "work" is like saying that a certain musical note doesn't work. It's just daft and the obsession around a set of numbers describing where players stand on the pitch is just puzzling. I genuinely blame FIFA and Football Manager for this type of stuff.

Your talking nonsense though if the statement is used in the context of our squad, which it is.

Not to mention that football tactics have an ebb and flow nature, and right now we are in an era of packing midfields and passing it fast.

There's an American football phrase coaches use "The first coach to play a wing-t formation got a national championship. The last coach to play it got fired". Right now 4-4-2 is out of fashion, and can work if you have a striker in there who can drop deep and counter fast or service himself and the other striker from the hole. Neither Aguero nor Dzeko are this player, where a Suarez or Tevez was.

Right now 4-4-2 with our current squad is suicidal. It doesn't suit our strikers, our midfielders, our wing play. But yeah, you convince yourself it's we've nothing but bad players and the formation is fine.

So every major league was won last year, including England, using a 2 up top but now it's "out of fashion" so we must change it.

It's not the totally inept performances by many of our big players that's the problem and the problem of looking like they couldn't give it shit, it's actually because "it's gone out of fashion" over the last 3 months.

Back to Football Manager you go Jose.

 

[BoundedCascade]

Re: 442 Must Go

4-4-2 : Dzeko/Aguero compete for the same space, and never link up well with each other. Silva is pushed wide and can't dictate play as much. Yaya pushes up leaving Fernando isolated. We get overran in midfield by any team, doesn't matter the quality, quantity beats us, leading to counter attacks and easy goals. We have less possession thus also have less time attacking and score less goals. This is a disastrous formation for City.

4-2-3-1 : Aguero has space to beat defenders 1v1 or run in behind. Silva can make the passes to Aguero or feed either fullback/winger making runs and dictates play. We have 2 holding midfielders who can help break up play and stop counter attacks/control the centre of the park. All this leads to more possession, more fluent attacks, more goals and less likely to get caught on the break. This is the formation City HAVE to play.

How Pellegrini can't see these simple tactics is beyond me. I like the guy but if he starts the next match playing 4-4-2 I will be wanting him to go because it would show how tactically inept he really is. If he is desperate to play 2 strikers, why not do what we did for the last 30 minutes today - Jovetic on the left looked pretty effective linking up with Silva/Aguero and allows us to play 4-2-3-1.

Because he's a professional football manager with 50 years experience in the game and you're not, so almost certainly has thought of these things and has also thought about reasons why he isn't doing it, which you haven't yet failed to grasp

Well said. I agree that he got it wrong today with 4-4-2 and that he is a little stubborn with it but Damocles has it, the man is experienced and knows what he is doing despite his stubbornness.

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: 442 Must Go

Bayern absolutely destroyed Barca a couple of years back using a two up top and often use Muller in an advanced role. Atletico Madrid played two up top much of the time last year and won La Liga. We ourselves won the league playing two up top. Juventus trounced Serie A using Tevez and Llorente up front.

Every major league in Europe was won by a team who plays with two up front either as their main system or as one which they often switch two.

There is this fashion to say things like "the 4-4-2 is old fashioned" which is totally bollocks. Formations and styles aren't the be-all and end-all of football and there's no right or wrong way to set up. Look at the difference in how we're playing this and last season and we're playing the same formation.

Saying that a certain formation doesn't "work" is like saying that a certain musical note doesn't work. It's just daft and the obsession around a set of numbers describing where players stand on the pitch is just puzzling. I genuinely blame FIFA and Football Manager for this type of stuff.

With Bayern:
1) they had technical strikers who dont lose possession and are both intelligent. Dzeko today compromised us in a lot of dangerous positions.

With Athletico:
2) work rate, 2 really hard working CMs. A counter attacking system where everyone works their socks off and built on defense. We simply dont have CM's or even WM's of these type.

442 itself inst to blame, its the way we play or use the personnel in this system combined with the tactics that is costing us

 

[NipHolmes]

Re: 442 Must Go

Bayern absolutely destroyed Barca a couple of years back using a two up top and often use Muller in an advanced role. Atletico Madrid played two up top much of the time last year and won La Liga. We ourselves won the league playing two up top. Juventus trounced Serie A using Tevez and Llorente up front.

Every major league in Europe was won by a team who plays with two up front either as their main system or as one which they often switch two.

There is this fashion to say things like "the 4-4-2 is old fashioned" which is totally bollocks. Formations and styles aren't the be-all and end-all of football and there's no right or wrong way to set up. Look at the difference in how we're playing this and last season and we're playing the same formation.

Saying that a certain formation doesn't "work" is like saying that a certain musical note doesn't work. It's just daft and the obsession around a set of numbers describing where players stand on the pitch is just puzzling. I genuinely blame FIFA and Football Manager for this type of stuff.

With Bayern:
1) they had technical strikers who dont lose possession and are both intelligent. Dzeko today compromised us in a lot of dangerous positions.

With Athletico:
2) work rate, 2 really hard working CMs. A counter attacking system where everyone works their socks off and built on defense. We simply dont have CM's or even WM's of these type.

442 itself inst to blame, its the way we play or use the personnel in this system combined with the tactics that is costing us

Both teams are set up with an high intensity pressing system where every player grafts. Both have a better mentality than ours and both teams have/had a better keeper and settled back-line.

Comparing us to Bayern is utterly ludicrous, they lifted the CL to win the treble, last year won the double and most players then won the World Cup. Bayern and Athletico also possess/possessed a striker in both team that makes Dzeko look like Andy Carroll, Miller and Costa are world class whereas Dzeko is infuriatingly inconsistent unless coming off the bench.

 

[afro2007]

the formation isn't the promblem

we need to look into the way we apportion blame on the formation without any justification what so ever,i feel we are not been real with the issue in the team, The player don't putt up their best for 90mins and not understanding the bases for playing for the club like City(bluemoon),but we do us fans. Teams like Bayern,Barcelona,Real Madrid play for the club and the fans as a whole.i hope we see the real issue concerning the team rather than blaming the formation and the manager. They should respect the club and the fans cause we make them feel important on the pitch so they should also make us proud when they face the big teams in Europe,

 

[afro2007]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

i don't think the formation is the problem but the way we set out the players to go into tackles when we lose the ball,we need to assert the way we play against our opponents.

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: 442 Must Go

Bayern absolutely destroyed Barca a couple of years back using a two up top and often use Muller in an advanced role. Atletico Madrid played two up top much of the time last year and won La Liga. We ourselves won the league playing two up top. Juventus trounced Serie A using Tevez and Llorente up front.

Every major league in Europe was won by a team who plays with two up front either as their main system or as one which they often switch two.

There is this fashion to say things like "the 4-4-2 is old fashioned" which is totally bollocks. Formations and styles aren't the be-all and end-all of football and there's no right or wrong way to set up. Look at the difference in how we're playing this and last season and we're playing the same formation.

Saying that a certain formation doesn't "work" is like saying that a certain musical note doesn't work. It's just daft and the obsession around a set of numbers describing where players stand on the pitch is just puzzling. I genuinely blame FIFA and Football Manager for this type of stuff.

With Bayern:
1) they had technical strikers who dont lose possession and are both intelligent. Dzeko today compromised us in a lot of dangerous positions.

With Athletico:
2) work rate, 2 really hard working CMs. A counter attacking system where everyone works their socks off and built on defense. We simply dont have CM's or even WM's of these type.

442 itself inst to blame, its the way we play or use the personnel in this system combined with the tactics that is costing us

Both teams are set up with an high intensity pressing system where every player grafts. Both have a better mentality than ours and both teams have/had a better keeper and settled back-line.

Comparing us to Bayern is utterly ludicrous, they lifted the CL to win the treble, last year won the double and most players then won the World Cup. Bayern and Athletico also possess/possessed a striker in both team that makes Dzeko look like Andy Carroll, Miller and Costa are world class whereas Dzeko is infuriatingly inconsistent unless coming off the bench.

exactly, and I will also add the Real Madrid won v bayern playing 442 away.

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: the formation isn't the promblem

we need to look into the way we apportion blame on the formation without any justification what so ever,i feel we are not been real with the issue in the team, The player don't putt up their best for 90mins and not understanding the bases for playing for the club like City(bluemoon),but we do us fans. Teams like Bayern,Barcelona,Real Madrid play for the club and the fans as a whole.i hope we see the real issue concerning the team rather than blaming the formation and the manager. They should respect the club and the fans cause we make them feel important on the pitch so they should also make us proud when they face the big teams in Europe,

the cruz of your post could be interpreted as hey sell all the players and bring new ones.

For me, there is no one problem. there are many problems that combine to make a big issue:

1. 442 with Dzeko and Yaya is a problem, we get flooded in midfield and have less ball retaining abilities as Dzeko loses the ball a lot and Silva has to drop infield to stitch MF with the forwards leaving a flank exposed.
2. The player's mentality is indeed an issue, won't go on to say that they dont give a shit but yes they do expect to win without working hard a lot of times and this is what makes us different from the elite teams you mention.
3. We try to counter this by predominately playing a possession style (so that we could get by doing less work) but because of two upfront and we concede the ball in a lot of dangerous areas
4. Ironically the shift to a more posession friendly system also coincided with us increasing work rate, so maybe its a combination of both formation, tactcs, and mentality

 

[MeatHunterrr]

Re: 442 Must Go

With Bayern:
1) they had technical strikers who dont lose possession and are both intelligent. Dzeko today compromised us in a lot of dangerous positions.

With Athletico:
2) work rate, 2 really hard working CMs. A counter attacking system where everyone works their socks off and built on defense. We simply dont have CM's or even WM's of these type.

442 itself inst to blame, its the way we play or use the personnel in this system combined with the tactics that is costing us

Both teams are set up with an high intensity pressing system where every player grafts. Both have a better mentality than ours and both teams have/had a better keeper and settled back-line.

Comparing us to Bayern is utterly ludicrous, they lifted the CL to win the treble, last year won the double and most players then won the World Cup. Bayern and Athletico also possess/possessed a striker in both team that makes Dzeko look like Andy Carroll, Miller and Costa are world class whereas Dzeko is infuriatingly inconsistent unless coming off the bench.

exactly, and I will also add the Real Madrid won v bayern playing 442 away.

bit different that, because Real Madrid wasn't trying to control the game with the BALL. Whereas we try to do it, where 442 is just shit.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

The formation is a huge part of the problem (but there are other factors too).

Teams have sussed out that if you really press Yaya and whoever his partner is in a two-man centre mid, you have a huge chance of upsetting our rhythm. And it's working.

Most teams, other than Chelsea Southampton and Seansea (and the teams we faced in Europe), sat off us last year. So far this year they are pressing us much more.